Vicar Philip

The 2nd meeting didn't go nearly as well as I had hoped.

The pastor explained to her most of the things he and I had discussed. He told her non-theism wasn't evil, bad, or to be avoided. He told her it was simply a different way to approach life than her particular way.

He may as well have been pontificating to my cat.

We were with him for three hours. He noticed our body language: I moved closer to her and was making every attempt at reconciliation, while she stayed in her coat, making belittling gestures at me as she described me bitterly as "the atheist" and how the books I've been reading are "trash and garbage." She continued to express her unacceptance of a single facet of my belief, even after he shared that he held many of the SAME beliefs.

The ride home was very quiet. Her one comment was that "I was putting on a show" for the pastor because I wasn't nasty and condescending to her like I sometimes get in our heated discussions about religion. Yes, I countered, but I only get that way after I am provoked and threatened with divorce unless I believe exactly the way she says to. We haven't spoken since that one exchange.

It shows me that the bottom line here doesn't really seem to be my different beliefs. It's the fact that she has lost control, lost her grip on my mind. All of these mind games and violence are her desperate attempts to cajole me and shock me back into her control. It ain't happenin'.

I don't know where we go from here. It's really up to her. I've decided to stop making my traditional disparaging comments about her religion, it's just not effective. She will have to be the one who "makes up" this time, if she even wants to. As far as the kids are concerned, the pastor told her that about the age of 13 is when kids need to start thinking for themselves anyway, so my wife's complaints about me "poisoning" my oldest son are baseless.

The pastor backed me up at every turn, defended me, tried to explain a-theism, theism, non-theism, etc. to my wife, brought in the cavalry, and I don't think any of it made a damn bit of difference. He didn't tell her what she wanted to hear; namely, that I am wrong and am disrupting the family. Quite the contrary. Our path from here is entirely in her hands.

Godless Dave

Sounds like hell. Good luck, man.

edited to add:

Maybe, just maybe, you can use the fact that the pastor backed you up to convince her that religious differences are not the real source of her unhappiness. Something is clearly wrong with her. Well, clear to everyone except her. I hesitate to give any more advice because it seems as if she won't listen to anything you say.

brighid

Vicar,

Oh man ... I am really sorry that the second meeting went so poorly. I seems your assessment of your wife might just be correct. If the pastor of the Church you have attended is able to support your decision and she STILL can't come to grips with it ... the problem is not your lack of belief, but as you said it seems to be her need to control you.

Sadly, she sounds so much like my old roommate and best friend. Their fear of abandonment and loss of control is so strong that it overwhelms every facet of their lives. It's easy to get along with them when you agree, and if you are the one who isn't argumentative or takes offense easily ... but the moment you dare differ in opinion or provide constructive criticism all hell breaks loose. Their irrational and over the top tempertantrums are used to control you because who the hell wants to deal with that crap if it can be avoided? Unfortunately, sometimes you have to stand your ground and say enough.

She seems to have some pretty wild mood swings as well. I know that any sort of real diagnosis CANNOT be made in any internet forum ... but my guess is bipolar (as another member pointed out.) Regardless, your wife really seems to need some professional help to heal the wounds she has buried that are poisoning every aspect of her life.

Brighid

Vicar Philip

That's it. You've described her problem in two sentences. She has told me countless times her biggest fear is being alone. Well, she's got a funny way of showing it. If this crap of hers continues, she's going to find herself VERY alone. I've about had my fill.

HelenM

I guess so

Did you talk about counseling, mental health issues at all?

I guess the point is that she wasn't listening and wasn't open to what either of you were saying

Helen

brighid

Vicar,

It's odd ... isn't it? Odd that the thing they believe they are most afraid of is actually what they are purposefully achieving? She is so afraid of being alone, but she is doing everything in her power to make life with her completely INhospitable and somewhere within her psyche she KNOWS this is what she is doing. She simply cannot admit it right now. She might not ever be able to, at least until she is ready to accept help.

When I got engaged, my roommate was at the New Years Eve party where my husband purposed. She literally went into a corner and cried for HOURS mumbling something about how she was going to "lose" me now! WTF? I told her she certainly would if she kept up her behavior, but not because I was getting married but because she was fulfilling her self-styled prophecies of gloom and doom. For some reason people in this state of mind find some weird solace in making themselves into victims. I think it is part of the mental illness ... that doesn't make it any easier to handle though.

Maybe you can ask her if she realizes that her actions are creating the exact situation she says she is so afraid of? Why would she do these things if they ARE creating this outcome?

Unfortunately we are no longer friends. She was a big part of my life for well over 10 years and she was even like a second mother to my son, but I just couldn't take it a second longer. Her negative and controlling behaviors just escalated the closer I got to moving out. It was just weird!

Brighid

BadBadBad

Vicar,

I wasn't there, but maybe you shouldn't be so quick to conclude this didn't go so well. The only way she was walking away happy from this was if this guy totally focused on you and dumped the whole load of christian guilt on you while she cheered him on, and at the end, you got down on your knees and came back to Jesus. What she apparently got was a total slap in the face, and from what you said, she took the brunt of counselling.

A lot of people go into counselling thinking their partner is going to take it on the chin, and they're all to eager to go on that basis. They may get some satisfaction, but then the counsellor is surely going to turn to them and ask what about you? You're not so perfect. Surprise surprise, you're not coming away clean on this. Even though I've argued about the christian counselling, I think we all knew she was in for a rude awakening. Let that settle in for a while. That was the first counselling session. Is it the last?

beth

I feel for you. Hang in there!

seebs

Very good point, there. It's always a bit of a shock when you realize that your partner isn't the only one with work to do.

beth

I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, but you might want to tell her that her militant protests against your atheism is just driving you further and further from the thought of there ever being a God. Also, read psychology books. Maybe they would give you insight in how to deal with her.