Viking

I'm not sure if discrimination in employment against atheists is illegal. It is certainly not true of any number of other circumstances like baldness, alcoholism, obesity etc. Now that I think of it, being a bald, overweight, ex-addict atheist I'm probably lucky to have a job!

The Lone Ranger

I lived in North Carolina up until about 4 years ago, and I'd frequently see "Jesus fish" stickers on the windows of businesses. I've often seen them on people's business cards, as well. I even see them in advertisements for the businesses in question in the Yellow Pages. (I see them fairly frequently here in Washington, too.)

I suspect that the average non-Christian would be more than a little wary about applying for a job at such a business. After all, (s)he has excellent reason to suspect that if his or her non-Christianity becomes known, (s)he will be fired. There are all sorts of ways that an employer could get rid of an employee whose (lack of) religion he disapproved of. Proving religious discrimination can be all but impossible.

In any event, I often see amazingly hateful letters in the local newspapers, decrying atheists as the root of all evil, or something like that.

I used to write an occasional column for a local newspaper when I lived in North Carolina. Not once did I state or imply that I was an atheist in any of the articles, but I did criticize Creationism on more than one occasion. Each time, I was careful to be polite and respectful of other people's beliefs. In fact, I bent over backwards to do my best to avoid offending anyone.

In response, many people wrote nasty, hate-filled letters to the paper. Many of them claimed that I must be an atheist, since only a "godless atheist" could deny the TRUTH of the Bible's account of Creation. Some of them threatened my life. More than one wrote that since I was obviously not a True Christian(tm), I was doomed to burn in Hell for all eternity -- and they hoped I would go there soon.

***

Given the prejudice against atheists that permeates our society, my perception is that in much of the country it could be very dangerous indeed to publicly announce that you're an atheist.


Ironically, a little over 100 years ago, Ingersoll used to give lectures to standing-room only crowds, and was probably the best-known orator of his time. A serious effort was made to convince him to run for the Presidency (he declined to run). Today, his name is scarcely remembered.

Some 80 years ago, H. L. Mencken wrote articles for some of the nation's most widely-read newspapers which were fiercely critical of religion. Today, no major newspaper would print anything remotely as critical of religion as what Mencken wrote.

If anything, I suspect that this nation is less tolerant of atheism today than it was in the past.


One thing that always astonishes me is how very many Christians assume that only Christians (or at best, other monotheists) can be good people. I'm a good-natured, helpful person by nature -- the sort of person who goes out of his way to help others.

On more than one occasion, I've stopped to help someone, and had him or her respond along the lines of, "Such a nice, Christian man you are." Typically, I politely reply that I am not religious, because I want them to understand that there's not a connection between being a good person and being a Christian. Typically, they act surprised. Some of them have actually said that they don't believe me -- I've actually been told that "no one could be such a nice person and not be a Christian."

Go figure.

Michael

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: The Lone Ranger ]</p>

trientalis

DigitalChicken, I am interested in hearing more of your ideas regarding atheist charities. Would a new topic be in order?

Toto

It is illegal because discrimination on the basis of religion is against the law. It's not even an arguable question - it's just illegal.

Now, proving it may be a different matter.

Viking

You may be right...but I've not seen such a case. My point is that since I have no religion, am I guaranteed the same protection under the law?

LLaurieG

(Laurie) I was thinking the very same thing, and I'm sure it would get a lot of feedback here. DC, would you mind starting a new thread about this idea?

LLaurieG

(To the Lone Ranger) That's the typical discrimination pattern against atheists, getting "outed" at work. Consequences are rarely so overt that the godless heathen is immediately canned - there's a law against that. More usually the juicy gossip nugget flows from watercooler through coworkers and mgmt and a subtle social "cooling off" to the atheist takes place. Great post, Ranger. I still want to nudge persecution of atheists into the "hate crimes" category however. Discrimination is a form of hate, to be sure, but the original idea here was to discover and publicize any physical or violent harassment of a sympathetic atheist as a victim of hate crime, because this concept is so freshly emergent in American consciousness it has finally achieved a label. I would like to see atheism capitalize and climb on this useful emotional bandwagon of current public perception.

(On the topic of charities) Atheists don't have to use Non-believers Only charities. As Bumble Bee Tuna remarks, is it about the works, or is it about self-glorification and "cause" visibility? My atheist/agnostic husband and I give to charity every month. We support the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, the Southern Poverty Law Center, American United for Separation of Church and State, micro banks, and other orgs that help the environment, feed children, promote literacy, and job training for women. I bet LOTS of atheists support socially liberal & enlightened causes in similar fashion.

The Lone Ranger

I should point out that I quit that newspaper job, because I eventually got fed up with all the subtle and not-so-subtle harassment.

The paper's editor was completely unsupportive, though not overtly hostile. Every time I turned in an article that mentioned the subject of evolution, the article would be butchered by the time it was printed. It would contain lots of typos that had not been in the original, and sometimes they would actually leave words out of a sentence or two to make it look as if I was saying something very different from what I was actually saying.

This never happened when I stuck to safe topics like sports. When I complained, the editor insisted that it was "just a coincidence," but it was such a consistent and obvious pattern that I eventually quit in disgust.

-- Michael