BigBadShrubbery

I don't know if this is the right forum, or if this question has been asked before, but here goes:

Why didn't Jesus come to die for the sins of humans 3000 years ago? Or why didn't he come 1000 years ago? Or 1000 years to the future?

Somebody might say that the moment didn't really matter, as God is supposed to be omnipresent (among other omni- things). Well, if it didn't matter, why did God choose that moment? Did he *ahem* play dice? (And what dice was it? d20? )

Some theists say that without believing that Jesus Christ was our Saviour, one cannot be saved. What about the believers who died before Jesus's little trip down to Earth? Did they get a "Get out of Hell free"-card or did they end up Hell? The latter seems incredibly mean.

If they got a "Get out of Hell free"-card:
What about those people who worship YHWH but do not believe that JC was their Savior? If they go to hell, shouldn't Jesus's first coming be scheduled somewhere near the Apocalypse, in order to avoid large amounts of people who believe in YHWH but don't believe in Jesus going to hell?

I don't have any answers, that's why I'm asking. If I am using strawmen or committing any other logical fallacy, let me know.

keyser_soze

Sure sounds like a good forum for it, but get ready for some serious LEAPING...

That being said, we would first have to consider that he a)lived in the first place and b) was god on earth. If you want to stipulate these things for the purpose of discussion, then I'm sure many can jump right in and help you out.

BigBadShrubbery

Ah, yes, I forgot to say that those two things are assumed for the purpose of discussion. Thanks.

TiConTiki

Quit asking questions that may confuse the faithful.

That is not fair. Things like that should not be spoken of - as they are heretical and may force a person to think - and thereby suffer a stroke or something else.

Suffice it to say that "God works in mysterious ways" - and leave it at that. Any more is sacreligious.

Jesus came when he did because he came when he did.

As far as those who died before - god has a separate plan from them - that is not known to us. As far as those who know worship Jehovah, Yaweh, or Allah - whichever name the God of Abraham chooses to go by - but does NOT worship Jesus - those will all be lost and will burn in eternal Hellfire.

Only those who believe in the divinity of Jesus and on the ressurection will be saved - and only they will get to go to Heaven and be with god. And it doesn't matter if they were bad and horrible folks because that is not the rule - so I strongly advise you to 'get saved' and then yoiu can do what ever you like to whomever you choose - because then - you will be a 'believer' and yoiu can go to Heaven.

Oh - I almost forgot - there are some nifty "chosen" folks too - but they wont get to go to Heaven if they don't convert like they are supposed to. In fact - all the "chosen" who have died so far - are burning in Hell as I write this because they did not accept Jesus as their Savior.

If you wanna win the game - play by the rules boy!

Roland

Well, I don't believe "God came to earth." I'm not even sure I believe Jesus existed. So I will posit another theory, at least as to why Jesus didn't "come" later.

I thoroughly believe the concept of Jesus had to arise in a relatively pre-literate, pre-scientific time in history. It had to be a time when people were still likely to believe in supernatural occurences. It also had to be a time far enough in the past when physical records of events were still very sketchy so that people of today could feel comfortable "believing" without a lot of objective proofs.

Thus, Jesus "came" (or rather the concept of Jesus "arose") at the pretty near perfect time.

Bobzammel

Apologist response is it was during the time of the Roman Empire, so the message would spread quickly throughout Europe and The Middle East.
However, that leaves out two certain Western continents who didn't 'hear the word' until 1500 years later...unless you believe the Mormon belief.

Grumpy

But, as the song goes, Israel in 4 B.C. had no mass communication.

For that matter, Jesus could've appeared in China and spread with the Mongol Empire. This assumes that the Christian God has equal regard for all human beings, and is not preoccupied with the Hebrews, as YHWH is (which is natural, as he is their god).

truelies

OK kiddo, you are celebrating National Tongue in Cheek Day Right?????????

Infidelettante

Well you don't just drop out of heaven on a whim you know. These things take lots of planning. Everything has to work just right and there is more that can go wrong than even God can keep track of.

I mean it's not like the whole garden thing was planned or anything. After that disaster some way had to be found to put things right that didn't leave God looking like the idiot he is.

Blaming it all on the woman was a good start but it left the man looking like a dufus. So you say something like "created them in his own image yada yada yada" and then you can back people off with "whataya mean he's a dufus! He's the image of God you got a problem with God?" One thing after another. You got to stay one step ahead or it gets ugly real quick.

Like Cain and Abel. Who would have thought a shepherd and a farmer would end up at each others throats and one of 'em dead. Now maybe it wasn't such a good idea to accept Abel's sacrifice and not Cain's but you got to have standards. And by God blood wins out. That's just the way it has to be. Wheat is just not the same. Green stuff don't bleed anybody knows that.

Well Cain took it the wrong way and next thing you know the plan is set back another couple hundred years. One little thing like one of the first two kids born on earth killing the other one is a major screw up. Take my word for it. It is

It can happen before you even know what hit you. Anyway it was the next screw up that really did it.

All of a sudden it was Sodom and Gomorrah [no wait, that's later on isn't it] things just went to hell [no wait] things got really bad. Really bad and there was nothing to do but put a stop to it. Have you any idea how much it takes out of you to drown an entire planet? It takes a lot but the real pisser is it added thousands and thousands of years to The Plan. Starting all over is no fun even when you're omnipotent.

Lets us cut to the chase. If you need a Messiah you can't just pluck one out of thin air. He has to come from somewhere don't you think. He's got to have a family. And a nation. And a history. And a people. All this takes time.

First it was Abram in Ur then Abram and the Land of Cannan and Sarai and people as the stars forever and ever. Then Hagar and Ishmael and Abraham and circumcision and Sarah and Isaac and it goes on and on and on.

Sodom and Gomorrah then Jacob and Joseph and his brothers and Egypt. Moses the plagues. Frogs. Lice. Flies. On and on. Exodus. The wilderness. Fourty years. The big Ten. Golden calf. Leviticus. Numbers. Deuteronomy. Joshua. Jericho and the walls came a tumblin down. Slay, kill, smite, murder, blood, death, kill a city here a tribe there save the cows and the girls cause you can use both of those but kill anything you can't eat or screw.

All this takes way more time than you know. And the stink. In all those verses did you read one even about burying the dead? No. The Land of Milk and Honey smelled. Bad

Saul and David and Bethsheba and Solomon and the first Temple. Rehoboam, Jeroboam, Abijam, Asa, Ahab and Jehoshaphat. Elijah and Elisha. Jehoram, Jehu and Joash. Jehoahaz, Amaziah and Ahaz. Israel in captivity.

Hezekiah, Isaiah and Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon they don't make names like they used to do they. Ezra, Nehemiah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, whoredom and judgement. Idolatry, disobedience and calamities. Back to Babylon and Lamentations. Ezekiel, Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk no they don't make 'em like they used to. Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi and then Jesus.

See how long it takes to get it right? It was only luck that got Jesus down there as soon as he did. And I'm not so sure it won't get screwed up yet again. God doesn't have the best track record you know.

JT

Dargo

I remember hearing a sermon about the amazing timing of Jesus appearing when he did. As you said earlier, the Roman road system supposedly made it easier for Christians to spread the gospel. The common use of Greek is supposed to have also made witnessing easier. There were some other points as to why the timing was so brilliant that I have forgotten. Of course, you'd think all-powerful deity could find a better way to spread his all-important message than word of mouth. Even the Roman emperors did a better job than that!