seebs

Sorry, I was still talking about the car wash thing. I wasn't talking about the grace thing.

With that... I think the "There is no God, open your eyes, amen" was rude, but funny. I have friends from whom I would have taken that line and just laughed. I think that ostentatiously praying before meals is rude if there are non-believers present, or if you're just not sure. Prayer can be personal and quiet, and God will still hear it.

So... When I'm at my agnostic friend's house, we use his before-meal ritual, which is that everyone holds hands for a couple of seconds, and no one says anything. When he's here, he uses my ritual, which is everyone dives in as soon as food is available to them. When I'm at the in-laws, they generally pray. But we all try not to be exclusive about it.

seebs

I have met missionaries who were real jerks about it, and missionaries who were good, helpful, people. It seems premature to assume that any particular group will be jerks about it.

Anunnaki

My opinion of missionaries is based on two things:

1.) Centuries of Christian history.

2.) Prayers and story books from a far removed culture do nothing to help people who are starving or in need of medical care. It`s not a lack of "loving thy neighbor" or having faith that Christ died for their sins that is causing their problems.

The girls at the carwash said they were going there to spread the bullshit (gospels). The said nothing about bringing any tangible help.

You can try and spin this all you want Seebs,but I`m not buying what you`re selling.

Panta Pei

This thread continues to be a great help and catharsis for me these days.

For those supporting my impromptu choice of personal activism, my best regards Even a pariah needs a virtual 'high five' every now and again

To those offering dissenting opinions and/or feel that given the situation I behaved poorly or rudely, I concur.

However, the fact that I felt forced to present such an aggressive example to counter their presumptous act in my home is all the more frustrating and offensive as I am ordinarily a 'live and let live' person.

Keep in mind that the SIL had ample foreknowledge of my atheist perspective and still proactively initiated the prayer ritual in my home despite my best efforts to remain inoffensive.

On any given week, I am compelled to provide proof of my integrity on behalf of 'God' while placing my hand on a bible I find morally reprehensible, deity references are found on currency in my pocket and on walls in my workplace. The night is filled with theives and killers that wear their religion on their skin and berate the laws of man because only 'God' can judge them.

That I should expect rational solace within the walls of my own home is not unreasonable. Any resistance, IMHO, is completely justified and based firmly on sound principles.

bonduca

Next time, she can cook her own damn burger.

Hope things have settled down for you at home.

seebs

Fair enough. I'm rather shocked by the Bible thing; you shouldn't be asked to swear by anything you don't believe in. That's just stupid!

Panta Pei

"I'm rather shocked by the Bible thing; you shouldn't be asked to swear by anything you don't believe in. That's just stupid! "

seebs:

To be fair, of the three circuit court judges only one actively requires witnesses to do the bible thing (his bailiff actually physically grabs your left hand as he instructs you to take the oath )

Unfortunately, he usually hears all D.A. district 2 cases which are violent crimes. On the occasion a rape case was heard before a different judge, I actively chose to take the "...or affirm that your testimony will be true..." option.

This option, I later discovered, is commonly understood to be for those invoking James 5:12 and/or Matthew 5:34 against the swearing of oaths.

That it also covers atheists may or may not enter the mind of the court or jury.

That it does makes all the difference to me

Panta Pei

"Next time, she can cook her own damn burger. "

For which I will offer a secret sauce, especially prepared for just such an occasion

"Hope things have settled down for you at home. "

As much as can be expected. Though, as with any conflict, many more irrelevant issues seem to hamper efforts at reconciliation.

Thanks for the concern, bonduca.

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Panta Pei ]</p>

The Other Michael

Hey Panta Pei,

Did you get things sorted out in re your Infidel Moment?

I hope things are back on an even keel (with sufficient freeboard showing too).

I'm not meaning to pry, but your situation popped into the forefront of my mind today, and I was hoping there might be some good news.

cheers,
Michael

Krieger

Wonderful.

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />