Haran

Is there a "Quest for the Historical Muhammad" and are there Muhammad Mythers? (MMs - not that I would find them much more reasonable than JMs...)

Why does Christianity seem to be the sole winner of such popularized study today, especially in light of recent national and international events that heavily influence our lives?

Muhammad and the Origins of Islam, F.E. Peters:

"Even if we were far more certain of the size and sequence of the original revelations recorded in it, the Quran would still not be terribly useful for reconstructing the Meccan miliu nor the life of the man who uttered its words: it is a text without context."

"For Muhammad, unlike Jesus, there is no Josephus to provide a contemporary political context, no literary apocrypha for a spiritual context and no Qumran Scrolls to illuminate a Palestinian "sectarian milieu.""

Steven Carr

There are people who are Koran mythers. Not sure if they are also
Muhammad mythers.

Vorkosigan

Christianity is hardly the sole winner. See recent developments on Lao tz, Chuang tz, Confucius....Jensen's Manufacturing Confucianism would be a good place to start. Jesus is rather an anamoly; the believing community has colonized the scholarly community and has made its axioms the default axioms.

Vorkosigan

Haran

Is this popular at the bookstands? Just asking, I have no idea and have not seen it.

This is sort of my point. Biblical criticism is popular and the scholarship highly visible.

I would think that many here might argue that this is because Christianity is a large religion that has a major impact on people's lives in our country and in some places abroad.

I, then, wonder whether more vigorous attention will begin to be paid to Islam and perhaps Judaism and to the influence that they have in our lives today (there are pockets of major Jewish influence in the US...and the effect that Islam is having is quite obvious...then there is the whole Israeli-Palestinian issue that effects us all whether we like and would like to ignore it or not).

Anyway, my real point was to focus on Islam, the Quran, Muhammad, and what people know of them... Should we be learning more in order to cope with its growing influence in our lives?

To some extent, I agree. However, there are plenty of secular scholars today and there are many "believing" scholars that might as well be secular atheists.

Anyway, to bring it back around to the study of Islam... Islamic teachers and scholars are definitely the ones setting the axioms today.

It would be interesting and probably beneficial to delve into the study of the Quran and Muhammad to the same depth that we do the Bible and Jesus...

If these more secular studies are meant to "soften" or to "moderate" Christianity (as I have heard some say), then shouldn't this same thought be applied toward Islam and other very influencial religions?

Peter Kirby

There is a book titled Liberal Islam edited by Charles Kurzman that was mentioned by my world religions teacher at UC Irvine. There we studied Muhammed, along with Jesus and Moses, without a religious agenda; our textbook on Muhammed was written by Michael Cook. Anyhow, the book mentioned should be helpful in understanding a side of Islam that you don't hear about often enough in the media. (Pre or post 9/11/01 ... remember that the Oklahoma City bombing was immediately blamed on Muslim terrorists.)

I have a single page on Islam on my personal homepage, but it has been justly criticized by some readers, as I don't have enough familiarity with Islam ... I haven't even read the whole Qu'ran. There is only so much that you can study deeply! Sure, it would be great to know Hebrew, Arabic, Latin, and Sanskrit; but I have to be realistic. My goal in the near future is to be more competent in Greek and Coptic. I study that with which I am familiar and interested. And I am interested a bit in Islam, but not enough to make an earlymuslimwritings.com.

I know, Haran ... you do a study of Muhammed and report back to us!

best,
Peter Kirby

Haran

Obviously there is only so much one can study, Peter. However, scholars of the not-so-distant past (many of the older names that you would probably recognize in your Christian studies) knew all the languages you mention and more such as Syriac, Armenian, Georgian, Ugaritic, Akkadian, and Sumerian.. They have writings in many different specific fields of study. I wish I could name more of them off the top of my head, but I can't. One comes to mind who is used as a source on Muhammad and Islam in F.E. Peter's book mentioned above (not to mention that Peters is also one of these kinds of scholars - do a seach on his name and you will also find information on Judaism and Christianity), namely Julius Wellhausen (of "Documentary Hypothesis" fame).

We're young yet, Peter, so don't short-change yourself... After all, I thought you were a Rennaisance Man!

I have read the Quran as well, have it in Arabic, have links to both the Quran and Hadith on my website... I have done the study and I still don't know all that much either, but I learn by discussing and investigating claims (I assume you do too).

I am attempting to start a dialogue and an interest here (since there is no forum entitled Quranic Criticism and History) to try and learn more from others as I do on other topics. I am not interested in doing a report at the moment, especially since I am still trying to gather information. But thanks for your vote of confidence.

Peter Kirby

Oh come on, Haran, you could call it "The Final Report on Islam," just make sure you use good photos when you say whether the Qu'ran was incised or excised...

best,
Peter Kirby

Greg2003

Take a look at this article for a skeptical inquiry into the sources for the Koran: http://www.secularislam.org/research/origins.htm Actually, this information is quite well known and Islamic scholars in the middle ages where very interested in critical inquiry into the origins of islam and koran. But, alas, fundamentalism is the scourge of modernity and the backlash against the rise of educated elites over traditional uneducated moral authorities.

Arken

I think it is obvious that the Koran was written by a person (if not alone, it would certainly be compiled in its final form and/or decided upon by a single person) unless you accept the Islamic beliefs that it came directly from Allah. Now whether or not this person was actually named Muhammad we don't have enough hard evidence to say but for all practical intents and purposes he may as well be considered to be Muhammad and in that sense not mythological. Since he is personally credited with writing the Koran, the situation is different than with Jesus who was not personally credited.

Greg2003

I think you're missing the point that it is a historical fact that the koran was compiled from several sources by various kalifs or Islamic leaders. There is no way, looking at the historical record that you can say there was one author of the koran. There were even competitions among story tellers to come up with the best stories about Mohammed's life. Competitors knew that their stories could end up in somebody's version of the holy book. It would be beyond naive to say that there was a single author. It's a fascinating subject that deserves more scholarship, though.