HelenM

This is a response to a post in the SL&S thread entitled:

Am I going to hell, or am I already there?

It predates those things, actually.

As Abacus wrote, it's a fairly typical thing for conservative Christians to say and it indicates she is quite serious and committed to what she believes.

It's a common jumping-off point in evangelism, that if a non-Christian uses the word 'religion' about what a Christian believes, they say "Oh, but it's not a religion, it's a relationship!" Then they hope the person will be confused and it gives them an opportunity to explain what they mean. It certainly does seem to cause needless confusion that some Christians have taken a word like 'religion' and given it their own negative meaning that other people wouldn't know about.

The upshot of it is that she means she talks to Jesus frequently and believes Jesus is with her, in her, watching everything she does, helping her throughout the day etc etc.

Anyway, I wonder if she knows the Bible implicitly refers to Christianity as a religion? If you want to point that out to her, it's in James 1:26-27.

Here's a webpage by a Christian which is a fairly representative explanation of what Christians mean by 'It's a relationship with God, not [just] a religion":

The Good News

Helen

One Winged Angel

Anything to get more followers...even claiming they don't want followers...

BadBadBad

I see this as being like the red cape the matador uses in a bull fight. Christians wave the red cape of christianity in front of skeptics. When we charge at it the christians step aside and yell O'lay! "Ah you see but that's not what christianity is to me."

I've seen this a lot lately.

BadBadBad

I read that link Helen. Just a bunch of basic God/Jesus sin/saviour crap. There's nothing that differentiates christianity from plain old religion other than his assertion that it does. It does start though with the guy writing on the black board to start his class that "I hate religion."

There it is. Religion has a negative connotation. Let's side step that.

cydonia

What kind of relationship is it though when it's at least possible that this relationship doesn't even exist?

Pyrrho

Haven't you ever heard of children having imaginary friends?

AJ113

Yep, and they clearly do not have a relationship with their imaginary friends as their imaginary friends do not exist. Just like christians and their imaginary god.

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Helen, I read the link. It's all well and good, but the author does admit that Christianity is a religion--even though he thinks there is more to it than the word implies. Many evangelical Christians are not even willing to admit that. To them Christianity is not a religion, and they are not going to admit that.

To tie this back to David's predicament, if his girl is unwilling to even admit that Christianity is a religion, then she is likely too far gone to reason with. Those that so adamently refuse to accept that Christianity just might be a religion are those that don't usually have much capacity for critical thinking. They just don't think about their beliefs and they allow emotion to dictate what they ought to believe.

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Slightly off topic, I take issue with his claim that other world religions are evidence of man's struggle to fill the god-shaped void in one's heart. I realize that his article was meant for Christians (or people who sincerely want to believe and are just looking for a reason), but he has done nothing to differentiate Christianity from any other religion. Christianity could be just one among the many religions which are attempting to fill the god-shaped void, and <insert non-Christian religion> is really the true way to God and inner peace. The article is full of emotional appeals, but does little to logically demonstrate that Christianity is the only means by which we can fill that god-shaped void in our lives.

-Nick

SilentPoet

"Here's a webpage by a Christian which is a fairly representative explanation of what Christians mean by 'It's a relationship with God, not [just] a religion"

- Every religion and theology is capable of saying that their beleif system is not a religion but a relationship with god(s)...
This can not be disproved but sounds silly. How can you have a personal relationship with god? God doesn't seem to be talking to them or expressing any kind of emotion so its really just a one sided relationship...
Of course I could probably get an answer (which I do) something like: "you don't know what your talking about until you've felt the love of the lord" so maybe its not worth my time to even argue with this.

HelenM

I think you're misconstruing what David's friend and some other Christians mean by refusing to call Christianity a religion.

It's not that they won't 'admit' Christianity is a religion. It's that they define 'religion' as a system by which people earn their way to heaven by being good; and they define Christianity as teaching that no-one can earn their way to heaven, but anyone can be saved by grace, through faith in Jesus. Therefore by definition (their definition), Christianity is not a religion.

You could try and force these people to accept your definition of what a religion is but it seems pointless to me to argue over definitions. If you want to have a substantive discussion you'd be better off setting aside that you and some Christians don't define 'religion' the same way.

Helen