Amos

In case you missed it, here's my take on Judas from the other perspective.

The twelve apostles were at one time the shepherds that were herding sheep on the night that Christ was born unto Joseph. They represent eidetic images of the conscious mind and were "out at night" to indicate that Joseph was "beyond theology" (Allen Watts?), which is necessary because "if the house was not swept clean many demons would have returned" to the mind of Joseph.

Better yet but more mystical, if the Joseph identity would have been present in the stable when the magi arrived they would not have entered because that would have indicated to them that the birth of Christ had not been from a benevolent (virgin) female.

After rebirth, when Christ was added to the Joseph identity now called Jesus, the shepherds were called to be apostles and Judas was one of them because it was Judaism that had planted the seed of faith now seeking to find understanding after metanoia.

So Judas was the personification of Judaism here portrayed as religion to serve as a means to the end and when the end is achieved the means must be annihilated or it becomes a hindrance to freedom . . . which is obvious or religion cannot be a means to the end.

This is affirmed in Gal.1-5 where "it was for liberty that Christ freed us and do not take upon yourself the yoke of slavery and sin a second time" (paraphrased), because, it goes on, "he who has been set free in Christ and remains under the conviction of the law has already been severed from Christ and fallen from Gods favor." In other words, when we are reborn we must abandon religion, or at least begin to sort out our own life and in the end be happy that religion has served us well as a means to the end but that sooner or later we must leave it behind because there are no churches in the New Jerusalem -- as everybody in Jerusalem knows, obviously, except Luther who remained angry with the Church and therefore never ended up in heaven here called Jerusalem (I added Luther for an example only).

Unlike faith, which has its twin in doubt (Peter and Thomas), religious indoctrination must be annihilated through understanding because only knowledge frees.

It is in the above understanding that Judas stood condemned to have betrayed the innocent blood of "Christ the man" (as opposed to "Jesus to Jew") who went for the bait of religious indoctrinated so that the Jesus identity could be crucified without any harm done to Juda-ism itself. In other words, unlike the other eleven who were left behind to be called into the upper room of the subconscious mind, Judaism (represented here by Judas) served its purpose which is a great tribute to Judaism as a means to the end.

In my opinion the "30 pieces" (eg. instead of 31), is where the divided mind (symbolized by the number 3) comes full cirlce in the 0 and the return of the silver pieces to the temple indicates that religion has served its purpose. The Chief priest speak on behalf of Judaism as whole and recognize that salvation is free as a gift from God and Judaism wants no money in the Church treasury (recognition) and so potters field exists in recognition that God is the potter and we are the clay until this day.

The betrayal of Judas is just a very delicate description that Judaism as myth understands (made known with "counsel of the Chief priests") that it is meant to serve mankind itself and not the ego of man who are the strangers buried at potters field. I would add here that if I was a Jew I would be so immensely proud that it was Judaism and Judaism alone that was responsible for the conviction of Jesus the Jew and I would have never insisted that an apology be made because the pagans had also something to do with the crucifixion of Jesus. It is absurd and mythically incorrect to demand such an apology.

In Acts it was the individual person--as opposed to Judas as an image of this person--who purchased the piece of his memory and considered it paid for. Therefore "let this encampment be desolate and may I never dwell in it again" (paraphrased to give accent towards the "end of religion)."

Notice that Matthew is the Jewish perspective of the Gospels.

WWSD

Amos,

I'm curious to know how you came about your rather unique views about your religion.

How long did it take you to conclude all of the things you've concluded?

How many people that you've told about your theology actually get it? And of those how many agree?

While I have a very hard time following you, I have to admit that I do read your posts attentively.
Are you a discordian?

Have a nice one!

Amos

Hi WWDS, and thanks for your recognition that there is at least some originality in my posts.

I do not memorize these things but write about them as I encounter them. I read the gospels twice so I am familar with the story but I sure do not remember much. I never study the bible and am of the opinion that the gospels must be prior to us by nature in which case we do not have to study the bible (good old Catholic shining through here).

It is rather the other way around. I am more inclined to agree with others and find much comfort in literature. I sure try not to be obnoxious and have great respect for some of the Christian posters here and actually admire, if not envy, them for their deep faith. The point here is that their faith journey is their journey and I am never to step on them unless they are galloping in the wrong direction.

No, I am not a discordian because I can always tell you the rest of the story. But maybe that is why I can be a discordian and if I am, please know that I do it for my pleasure (this Judas thing was new to me), and hopefully for the benefit of my reader who just may take a second look at existing opinions that are taken as fact.

I seldom discuss religion in our church but the local priest 'kind of' has some respect for me. I am a Marian devotee, if that interests you, but not a Mary worshipper. I just love her, that's all.

[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Amen-Moses

What do you use for the headaches?

Amen-Moses

Baidarka

Amos:
"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" Sigmund Freud

WWSD

Are you saying that the gospels are intuitive and need not be over analyze by continual reading?

Do you also take the same approach to the entire bible?
It's very interesting to me how deep your opinions on these subjects go. By your previous post, and I may have misunderstood, you seem to be saying that you aren't solely responsible for your theology in that all of your thoughts aren't completely original. But yet I have never encountered anyone who has similar views.

Just out of curiosity, how do you go about reading and then digesting the bible? For example, how would you read, and then interpret something like the book of Job? Do you read other's interpretations and then form your own? Or do you read the passages and then meditate on them, eventually coming to your own personal meaning?

WWSD

LOL, I find a ibu does the job nicely.

Amos

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Yes they are and they are the same for each and everybody but our insight emerges only if we read the gosples after they have become ours by experience. This would mean that we should be able to write our own and correct translation errors in the Gosples we read. </strong>

Literature is full of it and my presentation is just my re-presentation of their event in my words. Golding said the exact same thing in the Spire as did Zamjatin in WE but only with different details and surroundings. I use words and images from both or I can use images from others to present my ideas. Using different authors for me is like adding weight to my argument but to others it may seem confusing.

The renewal event is archetypal and is the same for everybody. Since it is metaphysical only conventional words must be used to describe it and these words are always chosen from their own vocabulary (obviously) and the setting of the plot is always done in their own unique way to avoid plagiarism. Joyces "Portrait" ends with the words "Old father, old artificer, stand me now and ever in good stead" and these words mean the same as the words spoken by Jesus "Father into thy hands I commit my spirit." The words of Joyce were spoken on day 37 of a 40 day countdown which happens to be April 27 to indicate that Joyce went into his own netherworld to rise again on May 1 which is symbolic for new life. The 40 days are his final tribulation days. Well I never read Job but early foreshadows are always given. It is just set up in the rising action of the plot and in the gosples the parables are like paintings or images of icons.

It is also true that reading the opinion of others helps redirect our own because there is no right or wrong (??) but often just a redirection of our own opinion is needed. Since there is archetypal truth in art things will always fall in place and if they don't we are wrong and must just let things rest until they make sense.

I have the rather unusual ability to read a Shakespeare play in one hour and go to sleep and then re-read the unsettled parts of the play because it is much easier to flip back and forth through the pages when asleep.

I would not call myself a contemplative in the usual sense but will admid that my thoughts ponder a lot.