Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ojuice5001 · 03-27-2003, 09:20 AM

Bumble Bee Tuna,

Only the very most influential philosophies have gods behind them. Descarte's philosophy qualifies because it was as revolutionary as Christianity and influenced all subsequent philosophy--Hume, Kant, Nietzche, you name it. I'd have to say the only other Western philosophies that could be the same way (not sure if they are) are Plato, Aristiotle, and the Sophists, and of course Christian philosophy is under Yahweh's control. I think before Descartes, the god of Descarte's philosophy used to be a minor god of some other attribute, and became Descarte's god when it became possible.

I think Mars is on our side because he likes war, and is a Western god rather than a Middle Eastern one. If this were a war like World War II, between two Western nations, then I wouldn't be sure whose side he was on. But as a Western god, he would always take the West's side against a culture whose heritage does not include Rome.

HaysooChreesto! · 03-28-2003, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
The interesting thing at the end of this war will be, what will Islams think when Allah didn't do didly for them. They believe Allah will smite their enemies. So if we win the war, Allah obviously failed. Christians don't expect God to make them win because God loves everyone and doesn't usually take sides. Allah does.

This occured to me as well. But Xtianity doesn't hold a monopoly on ignoring verified results.
While many Xtians may not expect their god to make them win... I'm a football fan, and I don't know how many times we've all seeon athletes thank their god for helping them to win. After Evander Holyfield knocked out Mike Tyson he actually said, "this just shows that my god is better than his".
Now that I think about, Xtians certainly do expect their god to make them win.

Bumble Bee Tuna · 03-28-2003, 11:32 AM

uh thanks for answering some of my questions. Has Descarte's god always existed? Did he inspire Descartes? Or did he come to exist when Descartes came up with the philosophy?

Most importantly, though, how did you come to your beliefs? How do you know Descartes has a god? How do you know the inner motivations of specific gods like Mars?

-B

Tom Sawyer · 03-28-2003, 01:21 PM

I have to say that if Allah is protecting Baghdad, then Allah is a bit of a pussy, because he doesn't seem to be doing very much.

Sure, a big sandstorm would have stopped an invading army back in Mohammed's day, but these days it doesn't do much more than slow the invaders down a little bit. If Allah wants to step in and answer some Iraqi prayers to strike down the infidels, he's going to have to put a little bit more effort into it. These half-assed measures just don't cut it against a modern army.

happyboy · 03-28-2003, 01:29 PM

you know, ojuice, i've been wondering much the same thing! so, how DO you know what gods are real and what gods aren't? do you just follow the tradition polytheistic model and invent them as needed?

a very confused happyboy

MrDarwin · 03-30-2003, 08:47 AM

In the unlikely event that we lose this war (or the slightly more likely event that we get involved in a long drawn-out quagmire like Vietnam without any clear victory) I wonder if the Christians will start saying, "God was on Saddam's side" or even better, "I guess I better start praying to Allah"?

Ojuice5001 · 03-30-2003, 10:12 AM

Bumble Bee Tuna,

I said what I thought of Descarte's god before Descartes. I said that he was probably the god of something else, and became the god of Descartes when the position became open. Don't know whether he caused Descarte's philosophy, or just took control of it when it already existed.

I know that talking about the psychology of the gods is only speculation. But I often don't label such statements about the gods as being speculation; in this I am following the tradition of priests everywhere.

MrDarwin · 04-11-2003, 10:51 AM

Ah well, so much for Allah protecting Baghdad.

It will be interesting to see how this will be interpreted by Muslims around the world: that Allah was on the Americans' side, or that Allah just didn't like that infidel Saddam Hussein. (Although I don't think anybody is going to lose their faith in Islam or Allah, or convert to Christianity, over this--theists in general seem quite resilient.)

Edited to ask, does anybody have any idea why the word "Allah" appears in red? I didn't format it that way!

Rhea · 04-11-2003, 10:56 AM

Allah's name DOESN'T APPEAR IN RED.

A holy message to you? And not to me?

Hmmmmmmm

MrDarwin · 04-11-2003, 05:19 PM

The word "Allah" appeared in red throughout the post the first time I posted it; after I edited it, it disappeared. Pretty spooky...

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-27-2003, 09:20 AM	#21
Ojuice5001 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A city in Florida that I love Posts: 3,416	Bumble Bee Tuna, Only the very most influential philosophies have gods behind them. Descarte's philosophy qualifies because it was as revolutionary as Christianity and influenced all subsequent philosophy--Hume, Kant, Nietzche, you name it. I'd have to say the only other Western philosophies that could be the same way (not sure if they are) are Plato, Aristiotle, and the Sophists, and of course Christian philosophy is under Yahweh's control. I think before Descartes, the god of Descarte's philosophy used to be a minor god of some other attribute, and became Descarte's god when it became possible. I think Mars is on our side because he likes war, and is a Western god rather than a Middle Eastern one. If this were a war like World War II, between two Western nations, then I wouldn't be sure whose side he was on. But as a Western god, he would always take the West's side against a culture whose heritage does not include Rome.

03-28-2003, 11:32 AM	#23
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	uh thanks for answering some of my questions. Has Descarte's god always existed? Did he inspire Descartes? Or did he come to exist when Descartes came up with the philosophy? Most importantly, though, how did you come to your beliefs? How do you know Descartes has a god? How do you know the inner motivations of specific gods like Mars? -B

03-28-2003, 01:21 PM	#24
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	I have to say that if Allah is protecting Baghdad, then Allah is a bit of a pussy, because he doesn't seem to be doing very much. Sure, a big sandstorm would have stopped an invading army back in Mohammed's day, but these days it doesn't do much more than slow the invaders down a little bit. If Allah wants to step in and answer some Iraqi prayers to strike down the infidels, he's going to have to put a little bit more effort into it. These half-assed measures just don't cut it against a modern army.

03-28-2003, 01:29 PM	#25
happyboy Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on the border between here and there, WV Posts: 373	you know, ojuice, i've been wondering much the same thing! so, how DO you know what gods are real and what gods aren't? do you just follow the tradition polytheistic model and invent them as needed? a very confused happyboy

03-30-2003, 08:47 AM	#26
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	In the unlikely event that we lose this war (or the slightly more likely event that we get involved in a long drawn-out quagmire like Vietnam without any clear victory) I wonder if the Christians will start saying, "God was on Saddam's side" or even better, "I guess I better start praying to Allah"?

03-30-2003, 10:12 AM	#27
Ojuice5001 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A city in Florida that I love Posts: 3,416	Bumble Bee Tuna, I said what I thought of Descarte's god before Descartes. I said that he was probably the god of something else, and became the god of Descartes when the position became open. Don't know whether he caused Descarte's philosophy, or just took control of it when it already existed. I know that talking about the psychology of the gods is only speculation. But I often don't label such statements about the gods as being speculation; in this I am following the tradition of priests everywhere.

04-11-2003, 10:51 AM	#28
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	Ah well, so much for Allah protecting Baghdad. It will be interesting to see how this will be interpreted by Muslims around the world: that Allah was on the Americans' side, or that Allah just didn't like that infidel Saddam Hussein. (Although I don't think anybody is going to lose their faith in Islam or Allah, or convert to Christianity, over this--theists in general seem quite resilient.) Edited to ask, does anybody have any idea why the word "Allah" appears in red? I didn't format it that way!

04-11-2003, 10:56 AM	#29
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	Allah's name DOESN'T APPEAR IN RED. A holy message to you? And not to me? Hmmmmmmm

04-11-2003, 05:19 PM	#30
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	The word "Allah" appeared in red throughout the post the first time I posted it; after I edited it, it disappeared. Pretty spooky...

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.