Freethought & Rationalism Archive

haverbob · 06-27-2003, 12:22 PM

Quote:

.........I have proven my point. I have exposed Consequent Infidel as a Liar, and someone abusing the arabic language i.e missiles.

Yes dear, that's right Virginia. There IS a Santa Claus.

Quote:

Perhaps I should move on and not belabor my point.

Yes perhaps. Perhaps you should move on.

Quote:

..........Perhaps I should use a language that is not biased. A language that is Universal. A language more exact than Science. Perhaps ? Perhaps Mathematics.

Yes perhaps. This oughta' be really good. I hope you do a better job adding fractions than Muhammed did when he made his inheritance recommendations.

haverbob · 06-27-2003, 01:53 PM

Also, one more thing.

Quote:

Man thinks that, We shall not assemble his bones
Yes Truly! We are able to restore his very fingers!

So both Allah AND his Angels are able to restore man's bones. Correct? I thought only Allah had that power. Also, this is some very bad news for people who are not happy with their physical appearance in this life. Imagine that, they are stuck being ugly for all eternity. Maybe that's what is meant by hell. Maybe there is a gym in heaven to help the overweight. Maybe Heaven has some really good plastic surgeons as well.

Biff the unclean · 06-27-2003, 02:24 PM

And of course there is still one enisie weensie tiny little problem with this magic book.

There isn't an't Allah

River · 06-27-2003, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by haverbob
Also, one more thing.

So both Allah AND his Angels are able to restore man's bones. Correct? I thought only Allah had that power. Also, this is some very bad news for people who are not happy with their physical appearance in this life. Imagine that, they are stuck being ugly for all eternity. Maybe that's what is meant by hell. Maybe there is a gym in heaven to help the overweight. Maybe Heaven has some really good plastic surgeons as well.

Ya, angels have a significant role in the Resurrection process. Each angel being assigned differentiated stature, and functions.

Maybe.

River · 06-27-2003, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
And of course there is still one enisie weensie tiny little problem with this magic book.

There isn't an't Allah

The same way you pretend Allah (G-d) is make- believe.....I will also pretend that you are make -believe

Biff the unclean · 06-27-2003, 03:30 PM

The same way you pretend Allah (G-d) is make- believe.....I will also pretend that you are make -believe.

Oh, are you going to start spelling my name B-ff?
How long have you had this problem where you can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy?

River · 06-27-2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
The same way you pretend Allah (G-d) is make- believe.....I will also pretend that you are make -believe.

Oh, are you going to start spelling my name B-ff?
How long have you had this problem where you can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy?

Can I ask where is your proof for the lack of existence for G-d? Are you just all talk?

Biff the unclean · 06-27-2003, 04:04 PM

The complete and total absence of any Gods is my proof.

Feel free to prove me wrong by producing a God. Any God will do, even a small one. I'd be happy to change my opinion.

Because all you have offered is a story that has God and his little magical friends as characters. You can get as pompous about this story as you like, but it's still only a story.

Consequent Infidel · 06-27-2003, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by River
Can I say that you've been paid to say what you say......because you are currently endorsing an interim secular "puppet "government in Babylon?

Can I say, that aliens are the progenitors of the hu-man race?

No I can't unless I have physical evidence. Otherwise I am just producing unwarranted stereotypes (and speaking out of my arse). Your words mean nothing unless you provide proof.

when you get these 'scientists" to kiss quran's ass In a conference in an islamic country that is FUNDED by muslim oil-Shieks and those scientists go there by luxery prepaid air flights and 5 stars stay, it does'nt take an inteligent person to know it.

Quote:

[ Noble Quran 31:10] He created the heavens without pillars that you can see. He established on earth stabilizers (mountains) lest it tumbles with you, and He spread on it all kinds of creatures. We send down from the sky water to grow all kinds of beautiful plants.

[Noble Quran 31:11] Such is the creation of GOD; show me what the idols you set up beside Him have created. Indeed, the transgressors are far astray.

These verses clearly show (you) that your juvenile "Atlas lifts the world" mindset is at fault. Perhaps you should put aside your outdated mythological beliefs......(Not only this, the role of mountains here clearly demonstrate a geological fact.)
I urge you to drop your mythological worldview. You will have a very difficult time supporting your obstinate belief ------that the sky has holes in it.

I'm the one who argues you to drop your mythological beliefe of a book that states that the sky is a roof whithout rifts that may fall on us.

and what scientific fact is that the mountains are pegs that were placed there to hold the earth from shaking ?

as for the sky verse you quoted, [insult removed, pescifish], it even assures my point more , lets see what it says :

(Quran 31:10] He created the heavens without pillars that you can see. He established on earth stabilizers (mountains) lest it tumbles with you, and He spread on it all kinds of creatures. We send down from the sky water to grow all kinds of beautiful plants.

There is another verse that Says :

(quran 13:2) Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; then He established Himself on the Throne

the question here is, why WOULD the 'sky' NEED any pillers in the first place when its just VOID? why does he say "look at the sky how its raised without any pillers" ?? How exactly can you raise void ?? for more explaination, Is it logical to Say "Hey man look at the air in this place how its raised without any pillers? why did "allah" say that its simple, because he thinks that the "sky" is a solid roof that is (*gasp* oh wow!) : raised without any pillers ! , and that is clear when we look at these verses that you desperately avoided :

And We have made the heavens as a roof well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to) ! (21:32)

(� �� )

AND this roof (sky) has no "rifts" in it :

Do they not look at the sky above them? How We have made it and adorned it, and there are no rifts in it? (50:6)

AND this roof (sky) can fall on us!:

Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man. S. 22:65

(�� ��  �� )

the simple conclusion from all above is that allah doesn't know that the sky he created is not a solid roof above us.

Quote:

You will have a very difficult time supporting your obstinate belief ------that the sky has holes in it.

the sky has no rifts in it because there is no such "thing" as a sky 'object' above , its the dumbest thing to say [i]"hey man look at the air it has no rifts in it[/b] like your redicilous book say.

Quote:

And you say, I am the Liar ( arabic : dajjal). I can assure you that the word "missiles" does not appear in the arabic Quranic text. Perhaps , it is you that is trying to lead people away with your lies. Or maybe ....you are not at fault.....Perhaps you believe in a Superior Atlantean Race that had missile technology 1400 years ago.

hey [insult removed, pescifish], don't start your usual bullshit thinking that it will work with me, here is the arabic text :

I highlited the word that was translated "missles" , arabic word �� (rojoom) lets see what the biggest arabic lexicon Lisan Al Arab say about this word in this verse :

�� : �� . �� : �� . �� : ��
http://lexicons.ajeeb.com/html/2052145.html

it says : (Al-Rajm) : is what is beeing throwed with, (l rojoom): plural, are the Stars that are used to throw , Allah Almighty said on this : �� (rojoom lel Shayateen) wich means stuff that are Thrown/fired towords them.

and why are you so angry for me using the term "missles" ?? its not me who translated it kid, go blame it on the official quran translations.

[removed insulting taunt]

and what a pathetic excuse of a defence we have here

:

Quote:

This statement is Anatomically correct....somewhat generalized but still correct.

Al-Tariq 86: 6 �7 may be translated into simple English as:

�Man should consider what it is that he has been created from. He is created from water (fluid) spurting forth, emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs.�

screwing around with translations again [removed insult]? did i not expose you lies and twisting of translations before? here is the arabic verse :

(�� ...�� )

and here is the official translation :

(86:6)
[He is created from a drop emitted- ]

(86:7)
[Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.]

why did you add "lower" its no where mentioned in the verse,[insult removed].

and whats this, [insult removed]? :

Quote:

Even though the male sperm is formed in the testes, the blood supply which, is an essential factor to the making of the sperm comes from between the ribs and the back.

The words of the Qur�an are not scientifically invalid, as the words �emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs�, do not necessarily imply �emanating in its final shape� only, but can also cover �initial emanation�.

Why are the words �Bayen al-Sulb wa al-Taraayib� (i.e. �between the ribs and the back�) used in the Qur'an rather than the phrase �Bayena shayin wa shayin� (i.e. between one thing and another) ?

Upon closer inspection of the verse :

Qur�an (Al-Tariq 86: 6 � 8) says:

�Man should consider what it is that he has been created from. He is created from water (fluid) spurting forth, emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs. Indeed He [i.e. God] is fully capable of returning him [to life].�

He/she came from a fluid gushing forth, emanating from a place, (not worth mentioning), between the ribs and the back. And yet man behaves with overbearing pride concerning the Day of Judgment. Indeed, God, Who created him the first time, is fully capable of returning him back to life. This theme is also demonstrated here.

the verse talks about the sperm fluid itself beeing emmited from these parts not the blood... read with me : [b](he is created FROM A GUSHING FLUED-----emmited from ....)

the flued beeing talked about IS the sperm not the blood..this is clear by looking at the words (he is created from) -- (gushing flued)...what is the fluid that man is created from [insult removed]? blood? no, yes thats right you can say it, sperm/semen.

Quote:

The Qur'an is an Elegant, Pristine text. There is no direct mention of "penis/vagina"

no shit?

can you read the highlited word?

its (farj) wich means the vagina...what's even funnier is when we look at the verse as whole, Allah has Blowed into Mary's Vagina...hahahah...

and Here is Imam Ibn Kathir's commentary on S. 66:12:

<And Maryam, the daughter of 'Imran who guarded her chastity (PRIVATE PART).> meaning who protected and purified her honor, by being chaste and free of immorality,
<And We breathed INTO IT (PRIVATE PART) through Our Ruh,> meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him TO BLOW into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb THROUGH HER PRIVATE PART; this is how 'Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here,

<And We breathed INTO IT through Our Ruh, and she testified to the truth of her Lords Kalimat, and His Kutub,> meaning His decree and His legislation. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Abridged, Volume 10, Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur'an, pp. 75-76; bold and capital emphasis ours)

In his comments to S. 19:22-23, Ibn Kathir states:

"Allah, the Exalted, informs about Maryam that when Jibril had spoken to her about what Allah said, she accepted the decree of Allah. Many scholars of the predecessors (Salaf) have mentioned that at this point the angel (who was Jibril) blew into the opening of her garment that she was wearing. Then the breath descended until it entered INTO HER VAGINA and she conceived by the leave of Allah." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 6, Surat Al-Isra', Verse 39 To the end of Surat Al-Mu'minun, first edition July 2000, p. 244; bold and capital emphasis ours)

sorry [insult removed]....your attempts of defence of your lies that i exposed eirlier AND the poliemics I made against your book , were not as strong as you thought.

you didn't answer me BTW, why did you also lie about the "universe expansion" verse, [insult removed]? did you think that no one here will ever come , poop your party and expose your lies?

Wassalamu Allaikum.

River · 06-27-2003, 04:27 PM

some Proof:

Qur'an was revealed 1400 years ago to the Comforter, Prophet Muhammad ( may peace and blessings be upon him). It was Revealed piecemeal by ArchAngel Gabriel. Is it possible for a Scripture that was revealed piecemeal to have such a precise statistical count of apparent polarities??? Can human conscientious design produce what is deemed the highest linguistic perfection as well as striking proportionate measures???

Check out these amazing statistics!

NUMBER OF TIMES THE FOLLOWING WORDS ARE REPEATED IN QURAN
================================================== =======
al-donyah (the present life) 115 times
al-aakehrah (life after death) 115 times

al-malaekah (angels) 88 times
al-shayateen (devils) 88 times

al-hayah (life) 145 times
al-mout (death) 145 times

al-nafaa (good doing) 50 times
al-fasaad (bad doing) 50 times

eblees (the Satan) : 11 times
esteazah min eblees (pray to Allah to avoid the satan) 11 times

el-moseebah (a disaster) 75 times
el-shokr (thanking Allah) 75 times

el-infaq (spending money for Allah) 73 times
el-redda (satisfaction) 73 times

el-dhallon (people who lost the write way if Islam) 17 times
el-mouta (dead people) 17 times

el-moslmoon (Muslims) 41 times
el-jehad (fighting in the name of Allah ) 41 times

el-zahab (gold) 8 times
el-taraf (prosperity) 8 times

el-sehr (magic) 60 times
el-fetnah (I am not sure how to translate this one but the meaning
is: fitnah is when a problem starts between a family / group /
nation and they start fighting or working against each others) 60
times

el-zakah (giving poor) 32 times
el-barakah (Allah blessing) 32 times

el-aqal (the brain) 44 times
el-noor (the light) 44 times

el-lesan (the tongue) 25 times
el-mouezah (breaching) 25 times

el-raghbah (wishes) 8 times
el-rahabah (the fear of Allah) 8 times

el-jahr (expressing something) 16 times
el-alanyeah (announcing something) 16 times

el-sheddah (Bad times , a test from Allah) 114 times
el-sabr (being patient) 114 times

Mohammed (PBUH) 4 times.
el-shareeah (Islamic Law ) 4 times

el-rajol (man) 24 times
el-maraah (women) 24 times

el-salah (prayer) 5 times
[Muslims pray 5x a day]

el-shahr (the month) 12 times

el-bahr (sea) 32 times
el-barr (land) 13 times

sea = 32/(32+13) = 32/45 = 71.1% of the earth
land = 13/(32+13) = 13/45 = 28.8% of the earth

In case you are wondering...the earth is not really 75% water as popculture dictates. I've also checked every anti-islamic website to see if these figures are debated. They are not. Thats unusual, considering how antsy and opportunistic these polemicists tend to be.

06-27-2003, 04:27 PM	#260
River Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 3,680	ADDRESSING THE AGNOSTICS AND THE NAYSAYERS some Proof: Qur'an was revealed 1400 years ago to the Comforter, Prophet Muhammad ( may peace and blessings be upon him). It was Revealed piecemeal by ArchAngel Gabriel. Is it possible for a Scripture that was revealed piecemeal to have such a precise statistical count of apparent polarities??? Can human conscientious design produce what is deemed the highest linguistic perfection as well as striking proportionate measures??? Check out these amazing statistics! NUMBER OF TIMES THE FOLLOWING WORDS ARE REPEATED IN QURAN ================================================== ======= al-donyah (the present life) 115 times al-aakehrah (life after death) 115 times al-malaekah (angels) 88 times al-shayateen (devils) 88 times al-hayah (life) 145 times al-mout (death) 145 times al-nafaa (good doing) 50 times al-fasaad (bad doing) 50 times eblees (the Satan) : 11 times esteazah min eblees (pray to Allah to avoid the satan) 11 times el-moseebah (a disaster) 75 times el-shokr (thanking Allah) 75 times el-infaq (spending money for Allah) 73 times el-redda (satisfaction) 73 times el-dhallon (people who lost the write way if Islam) 17 times el-mouta (dead people) 17 times el-moslmoon (Muslims) 41 times el-jehad (fighting in the name of Allah ) 41 times el-zahab (gold) 8 times el-taraf (prosperity) 8 times el-sehr (magic) 60 times el-fetnah (I am not sure how to translate this one but the meaning is: fitnah is when a problem starts between a family / group / nation and they start fighting or working against each others) 60 times el-zakah (giving poor) 32 times el-barakah (Allah blessing) 32 times el-aqal (the brain) 44 times el-noor (the light) 44 times el-lesan (the tongue) 25 times el-mouezah (breaching) 25 times el-raghbah (wishes) 8 times el-rahabah (the fear of Allah) 8 times el-jahr (expressing something) 16 times el-alanyeah (announcing something) 16 times el-sheddah (Bad times , a test from Allah) 114 times el-sabr (being patient) 114 times Mohammed (PBUH) 4 times. el-shareeah (Islamic Law ) 4 times el-rajol (man) 24 times el-maraah (women) 24 times el-salah (prayer) 5 times [Muslims pray 5x a day] el-shahr (the month) 12 times el-bahr (sea) 32 times el-barr (land) 13 times sea = 32/(32+13) = 32/45 = 71.1% of the earth land = 13/(32+13) = 13/45 = 28.8% of the earth In case you are wondering...the earth is not really 75% water as popculture dictates. I've also checked every anti-islamic website to see if these figures are debated. They are not. Thats unusual, considering how antsy and opportunistic these polemicists tend to be.

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06-27-2003, 02:24 PM	#253
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	And of course there is still one enisie weensie tiny little problem with this magic book. There isn't an't Allah

06-27-2003, 03:30 PM	#256
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	The same way you pretend Allah (G-d) is make- believe.....I will also pretend that you are make -believe. Oh, are you going to start spelling my name B-ff? How long have you had this problem where you can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy?

06-27-2003, 04:04 PM	#258
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	The complete and total absence of any Gods is my proof. Feel free to prove me wrong by producing a God. Any God will do, even a small one. I'd be happy to change my opinion. Because all you have offered is a story that has God and his little magical friends as characters. You can get as pompous about this story as you like, but it's still only a story.

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