Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MrDarwin · 05-09-2003, 06:02 AM

How long before creationists start taking this out of context?

Quote:

Army ants, nature's ultimate coalition task force, strike their prey en masse in a blind, voracious column and pay no attention to the conventional wisdom of evolutionary biologists.

The common scientific belief has been that army ants originated separately on several continents over millions of years. Now it is found there was no evolution.

from: Army Ants Have Defied Evolution For 100 Million Years

The immediately following sentence is:

Quote:

Using fossil data and the tools of a genetics detective, a Cornell University entomologist has discovered that these ants come from the same point of origin, because since the reign of the dinosaurs, about 100 million years ago, army ants in essence have not changed a bit.

First, "Now it is found there was no evolution", then "in essence have not changed a bit". If they haven't evolved at all, one has to wonder why there are so many different genera and species of army ants around the world. (Oh right, that's "microevolution".)

This website usually has pretty good science reporting, but in this case it really made me cringe. The gist of the research is that, rather than having separate origins and evolving the "army ant" lifestyle separately--as entomologists had generally hypothesized--all the army ants in the world come from (read: evolved from) a common army ant ancestor that lived during the Cretaceous, before the Gondwanan continents broke up (which explains why they are found on widely separated continents, even though the queens are wingless and thus are poor dispersers).

ps418 · 05-09-2003, 07:25 AM

Ants have defied evolution? Well, its about time somebody stood up to that bastard! Who does he think he is anyway?

After all, evolution means that successfully adapted organisms will change dramatically over time, just for the hell of it, right?

I wonder why I never hear anyone talking about the brachiopod Lingula, which has "defied" evolution since the Cambrian, or those intractable cyanobacteria, which have "defied" evolution since the Archean.

Patrick

Jimmy Higgins · 05-09-2003, 10:36 AM

(Jimmy Higgins getting can of Raid to eliminate anti-evolution evidence)

What Army Ants?

Godless Dave · 05-09-2003, 10:54 AM

Good idea! When the Raid-resistant army ants that survive your attack start breeding and infesting whole continents, you will have demonstrated mutation and natural selection!

Nic Tamzek · 05-09-2003, 11:32 AM

It took approximately zero seconds for a creo to take it out of context: check out this ARN thread where someone is already bolding the "did not evolve" bits.

http://www.arn.org/boards/ubb-get_to...-t-000714.html

(follow that thread as ant grad student Myrmecos will probably make an appearance and make an incredibly erudite discussion at some point, you will learn something)

If you look at the bottom of the science daily story, they got it as a Cornell University Press Release, written by God knows who. And it appears that the science media is just repeating the blurb, over and over. I checked PNAS and didn't see the paper, I think we're watching how general science news is made: badly.

Here is what I said in the ARN thread:

====
I don't suppose it's possible that this Cornell press release might be a wee bit oversimplified?

E.g. it looks like there's a bunch of genera and species just in the New World, I doubt that they "didn't evolve at all":

http://www.armyants.org/indexfiles/photos.html

MrDarwin · 05-09-2003, 12:36 PM

Okay, now how long until somebody comes back with, "but they're all still ants!"

Dr.GH · 05-09-2003, 02:45 PM

I sent the following email to the Cornell journalism major Blaine P. Friedlander Jr. Office: 607-255-3290 E-Mail: bpf2@cornell.edu
who wrote the press release and to Sean Bradly, the "scientist" responsible:

re: Really stupid

Army ants , as voracious as ever, have defied evolution for 100 million years, Cornell entomologist finds

"The common scientific belief has been that army ants originated separately on several continents over millions of years. Now it is found there was no evolution. Using fossil data and the tools of a genetics detective, a Cornell University entomologist has discovered that these ants come from the same point of origin, because since the reign of the dinosaurs, about 100 million years ago, army ants in essence have not changed a bit. "

The sensationalistic title, and this one sentence has already begun to spread by creationists as "scientific" proof that biblical creationism is true, and evolution is false.

You have now joined the ranks of "scientific" evolution deniers. Really stupid.

Dr. G. S. Hurd

RBH · 05-09-2003, 06:32 PM

Nicely done, Gary!

RBH

faust · 05-09-2003, 07:24 PM

^5 DrGH

post the reply when you get it please

RufusAtticus · 05-09-2003, 10:02 PM

Socratism has already brought it up on TheologyWeb.

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05-09-2003, 07:25 AM	#2
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	Ants have defied evolution? Well, its about time somebody stood up to that bastard! Who does he think he is anyway? After all, evolution means that successfully adapted organisms will change dramatically over time, just for the hell of it, right? I wonder why I never hear anyone talking about the brachiopod Lingula, which has "defied" evolution since the Cambrian, or those intractable cyanobacteria, which have "defied" evolution since the Archean. Patrick

05-09-2003, 10:36 AM	#3
Jimmy Higgins Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Proud Citizen of Freedonia Posts: 42,473	(Jimmy Higgins getting can of Raid to eliminate anti-evolution evidence) What Army Ants?

05-09-2003, 10:54 AM	#4
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	Good idea! When the Raid-resistant army ants that survive your attack start breeding and infesting whole continents, you will have demonstrated mutation and natural selection!

05-09-2003, 11:32 AM	#5
Nic Tamzek Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: California Posts: 646	It took approximately zero seconds for a creo to take it out of context: check out this ARN thread where someone is already bolding the "did not evolve" bits. http://www.arn.org/boards/ubb-get_to...-t-000714.html (follow that thread as ant grad student Myrmecos will probably make an appearance and make an incredibly erudite discussion at some point, you will learn something) If you look at the bottom of the science daily story, they got it as a Cornell University Press Release, written by God knows who. And it appears that the science media is just repeating the blurb, over and over. I checked PNAS and didn't see the paper, I think we're watching how general science news is made: badly. Here is what I said in the ARN thread: ==== I don't suppose it's possible that this Cornell press release might be a wee bit oversimplified? E.g. it looks like there's a bunch of genera and species just in the New World, I doubt that they "didn't evolve at all": http://www.armyants.org/indexfiles/photos.html

05-09-2003, 12:36 PM	#6
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	Okay, now how long until somebody comes back with, "but they're all still ants!"

05-09-2003, 02:45 PM	#7
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	I sent the following email to the Cornell journalism major Blaine P. Friedlander Jr. Office: 607-255-3290 E-Mail: bpf2@cornell.edu who wrote the press release and to Sean Bradly, the "scientist" responsible: re: Really stupid Army ants , as voracious as ever, have defied evolution for 100 million years, Cornell entomologist finds "The common scientific belief has been that army ants originated separately on several continents over millions of years. Now it is found there was no evolution. Using fossil data and the tools of a genetics detective, a Cornell University entomologist has discovered that these ants come from the same point of origin, because since the reign of the dinosaurs, about 100 million years ago, army ants in essence have not changed a bit. " The sensationalistic title, and this one sentence has already begun to spread by creationists as "scientific" proof that biblical creationism is true, and evolution is false. You have now joined the ranks of "scientific" evolution deniers. Really stupid. Dr. G. S. Hurd

05-09-2003, 06:32 PM	#8
RBH Contributor Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 15,407	Nicely done, Gary! RBH

05-09-2003, 07:24 PM	#9
faust Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: baton rouge, la Posts: 539	^5 DrGH post the reply when you get it please

05-09-2003, 10:02 PM	#10
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Socratism has already brought it up on TheologyWeb.

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