Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Half-Life · 04-16-2002, 04:20 PM

My religion teacher told me that Padre Pio had the gift of speaking in tongues. I didn't know what this was until he explained it. This is what it means: Padre Pio spoke only Italian. When someone spoke to him in English, he heard it in Italian, and when he talked back to the person in Italian, the person heard it in English. So, this is what tongues are. You hear someone talking in YOUR language. Do you think this is true? I have no idea what to think. I told my teacher I would find out atheists opinions about this and he said, "OK bring it in and we'll discuss it." Do you think speaking in tongues has to do with the existence of God, or can it be done without God existing?

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Half-Life ]

daemon · 04-16-2002, 04:32 PM

Well, I'm glad to see at least someone understands what the Bible quite clearly states "speaking in tongues" is, instead of the bizarre glossolalia malarkey spread by the fundegelicals.

That said, I doubt the veracity of the report. I don't think anyone speaks in tongues. The Bible quite clearly states that Christians should be able to speak in tongues, so it would provide some corroboration, but it is also possible that if such an ability did exist, it could be independent of the Christian god.

By the way, a little about Padre Pio can be found in <a href="http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/vatican4.htm" target="_blank">this article</a>.

Quote:

Today, an estimated 1 million faithful from around the world are expected to converge on Rome for the beatification of Padre Pio, who for fifty years reportedly exhibited a "stigmata," wounds replicating the bleeding said to have been suffered on the cross by Jesus Christ. During his lifetime, Padre Pio was the subject of two official investigations conducted by Vatican authorities. There were claims that he liked the intimate company of young women who wore perfume, and had even inflicted stigmata wounds on himself using acid.

Pio was born Francesco Forgione in Pietrelcina, Italy in 1887. He is described as having been a pious youth who regularly fell into "trances" and hallucinating states of altered consciousness. He also developed a habit of self-flagellation, a behavioral phenomenon which some have speculated fuels those altered mental states and creations visions or feelings of wholeness and transcendence. At age 31, he joined a monastery at San Giovanni Rotondo, where reports of the trances continued, along with stories of Pio awakening covered with blood. Church authorities were skeptical, especially when a cult emerged around Pio, and his followers began fighting over pieces of cloth torn from his vestments. The Vatican then order the notorious friar to celebrate his masses in private, and not display his wounds in public.

Stories about the sanctity and miraculous character of Padre Pio spread. One tale recounts that after hearing the suggestion that the friar be exiled to a monastery elsewhere in Italy, Pope Pius XI received a vision begging him to show mercy on Pio. It is also claimed that during World War II, allied bomber pilots reported seeing Padre Pio in the sky directing their attacks away from the San Giovanni Rotondo. The friar was also described as having miraculous healing powers; and in 1962, a Polish priest named Karol Wojtyla -- who later became Pope John Paul II -- wrote to Pio asking him to pray for a women who was dying of cancer. Church authorities claims that following Pio's intercession, the woman was examined by doctors and no traces of cancer were found.

Pio has become the focus of a burgeoning "sainthood industry" complete with rituals, sacred centers of pilgrimage, fantastic claims and apocalyptic warnings. The Daily Telegraph notes that John Paul "has steadily advanced the cause of Padre Pio," and the friar's beatification today is considered a sure step on the road to full canonization in the year 2000, part of the Vatican's much-hyped "Jubilee" celebration. Up to 20 million religious from around the world are expected to pour into Italy and Israel, some merely to commemorate the new millennium, others to await the apocalypse and the end of the world. Indeed, Padre Pio is the subject of web sites, organizations, hundreds of books and a Catholic cult spurred by reports of supernatural visions and fears of an immanent "Great Chastisement" to punish the world before the Second Coming of Jesus.

It should be noted that this does come from the American Atheists, and can certainly not be considered an unbiased source.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: daemon ]

hinduwoman · 04-16-2002, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Half-Life:
Padre Pio spoke only Italian. When someone spoke to him in English, he heard it in Italian, and when he talked back to the person in Italian, the person heard it in English.
[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Half-Life ]

Is there any independant unbiased witness to verify this?

Half-Life · 04-16-2002, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daemon:

It should be noted that this does come from the American Atheists, and can certainly not be considered an unbiased source.

[/QB]

Why quote from that source if it is biased? Quote from a fair source. Who says he used acid to inflict the wounds? I have no idea.

Datheron · 04-16-2002, 08:32 PM

Just a question, Half-life - are you interested in discussion of the issues that you raise and bring forth, or do you merely want opinions and thoughts from atheists?

Half-Life · 04-17-2002, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Datheron:
Just a question, Half-life - are you interested in discussion of the issues that you raise and bring forth, or do you merely want opinions and thoughts from atheists?

I am interested in both.

Godless Dave · 04-17-2002, 03:45 AM

As a linguist, I can tell you that there are no documented occurences of the phenomenon you describe.

There's no such thing as exact translation. Words don't have one-to-one semantic correspondences between languages. I.e. the English word "house" just means the building, but the German word "Haus" can mean house, the building, or home. Plus, every language uses idioms in speech that don't make any sense when translated word for word.

Bokonon · 04-17-2002, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave:
As a linguist, I can tell you that there are no documented occurences of the phenomenon you describe.

Clearly, you've never seen Star Trek.

brighid · 04-17-2002, 04:38 AM

I really don’t see this ability to understand different languages as being miraculous. I have this ability to a certain degree. I studied German in high school and college. When I went away to college I entered a total immersion foreign language program. I was housed with native speakers and other students who spoke German, French, Italian, Spanish and Russian. Although I never took any formal teaching in either French or Spanish I began to understand it quite well and I could have a conversation in English when they spoke to me in French or Spanish. My roommate was French and one morning asked me if I was taking French classes. I told her no. She told me that I was talking in my sleep that night (which I commonly do) and it woke her. I was speaking French perfectly and she understood everything I said. I don’t think this is all that strange because of the exposure to those languages. My subconscious mind probably picked up much more then I could relay consciously. I simply have a really easy time picking up foreign languages, although right now my German is terribly rusty

Was God intervening and causing me to “speak in tongues?” Puhlease!!!

Brighid

beachbum · 04-17-2002, 05:30 AM

For the longest time I thought that early rodk-and-roll with its lamma ramma ding dong and shoo wap de wop an ddon't forget bop de bop were actually someone speaking in tongues.

04-16-2002, 04:20 PM	#1
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	Hey! Something interesting I heard about today My religion teacher told me that Padre Pio had the gift of speaking in tongues. I didn't know what this was until he explained it. This is what it means: Padre Pio spoke only Italian. When someone spoke to him in English, he heard it in Italian, and when he talked back to the person in Italian, the person heard it in English. So, this is what tongues are. You hear someone talking in YOUR language. Do you think this is true? I have no idea what to think. I told my teacher I would find out atheists opinions about this and he said, "OK bring it in and we'll discuss it." Do you think speaking in tongues has to do with the existence of God, or can it be done without God existing? [ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Half-Life ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-16-2002, 08:32 PM	#5
Datheron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 553	Just a question, Half-life - are you interested in discussion of the issues that you raise and bring forth, or do you merely want opinions and thoughts from atheists?

04-17-2002, 03:45 AM	#7
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	As a linguist, I can tell you that there are no documented occurences of the phenomenon you describe. There's no such thing as exact translation. Words don't have one-to-one semantic correspondences between languages. I.e. the English word "house" just means the building, but the German word "Haus" can mean house, the building, or home. Plus, every language uses idioms in speech that don't make any sense when translated word for word.

04-17-2002, 04:38 AM	#9
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	I really don’t see this ability to understand different languages as being miraculous. I have this ability to a certain degree. I studied German in high school and college. When I went away to college I entered a total immersion foreign language program. I was housed with native speakers and other students who spoke German, French, Italian, Spanish and Russian. Although I never took any formal teaching in either French or Spanish I began to understand it quite well and I could have a conversation in English when they spoke to me in French or Spanish. My roommate was French and one morning asked me if I was taking French classes. I told her no. She told me that I was talking in my sleep that night (which I commonly do) and it woke her. I was speaking French perfectly and she understood everything I said. I don’t think this is all that strange because of the exposure to those languages. My subconscious mind probably picked up much more then I could relay consciously. I simply have a really easy time picking up foreign languages, although right now my German is terribly rusty Was God intervening and causing me to “speak in tongues?” Puhlease!!! Brighid

04-17-2002, 05:30 AM	#10
beachbum Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cocoa Beach, FL Posts: 864	For the longest time I thought that early rodk-and-roll with its lamma ramma ding dong and shoo wap de wop an ddon't forget bop de bop were actually someone speaking in tongues.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.