Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shadowy Man · 12-06-2002, 01:21 PM

I mean, what is the theory??? That the universe was intelligently designed is a hypothesis. So, what's the actual theory?

JusticeMachine · 12-06-2002, 01:28 PM

I guess the easiest way to put it is: Organic life is so complex, both in how it is constructed and the way it work, that it couldn't have been me chance that it occured. It had to have been designed.

Probably an over-simplification, but there it is.

Shadowy Man · 12-06-2002, 01:33 PM

That's not a theory, though.

Is there actually a theory?

JusticeMachine · 12-06-2002, 01:44 PM

Theory: 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Are you looking for a set of statements or principles?

What I said is a theory, if you read the second definition.

pz · 12-06-2002, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man:
<strong>That's not a theory, though.</strong>

It's also nothing more than an argument from ignorance.

pz · 12-06-2002, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JusticeMachine:
Theory: 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Are you looking for a set of statements or principles?

What I said is a theory, if you read the second definition.

The second definition is a colloquial one. If Intelligent Design expects to be treated as a scientific theory, you must use the first definition.

By the scientific definition of a theory, ID fails, as does your attempt at a simplified presentation. Trying to claim that ID is a scientific theory, and when pressed, substituting the lay definition of a theory as nothing more than a guess, is a tactic that has a name: it's called "bait & switch". Look that up in your dictionary.

fando · 12-06-2002, 03:56 PM

I think it's best to call Intelligent Design a conjecture.

xstvn · 12-06-2002, 04:09 PM

There was an editorial in my local paper today called;

Intelligent design could offer fresh ideas on evolution

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio...drebut06.shtml

Quote:

Contrary to the association, the scientific theory of intelligent design is not religious (which is one reason why creationist groups have criticized it). Design theory proposes that much of the highly ordered complexity seen throughout the biological world is better explained by an intelligent cause than Darwin's mechanism of chance and necessity, but it doesn't claim that science can identify who or what the designer is.

Quote:

Far from posing a threat to science, intelligent design is a good example of how scientists can be inspired to seek fresh explanations due to holes in an existing theory.

The writer (from the Discovery Institute) seems more intent in pointing out holes in evolution than than explaining exactly what intelligent design theory is.
But its an interesting read and seemed to fit in this topic.

scigirl · 12-07-2002, 08:36 AM

Hello JusticeMachine, and welcome to infidels.

Feel free to introduce yourself here at the
<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">Welcome Forum</a>.

scigirl

hezekiah jones · 12-07-2002, 09:15 AM

Here is the intelligent design "theory" (even Alvin Plantinga refers to this as its "classic statement"):

In crossing a heath, suppose I pitched my foot against a stone, and were asked how the stone came to be there, I might possibly answer that for any thing I know to the contrary, it had lain there for ever: nor would it perhaps be very easy to show the absurdity of this answer. But suppose I had found a watch upon the ground and it should be inquired how the watch happened to be in that place, I should hardly think of the answer which I had before given, that, for any thing I know the watch might have always been there. Yet why should not this answer serve for the watch, as well as for the stone? For this reason and for no other: viz., that, when we come to inspect the watch, we perceive (what we could not discover in the stone) that its several parts are framed and put together for a purpose. - William Paley

It's not a theory at all. It's a species of teleological argument for the existence of god by means of analogy, which Hume mortally wounded and Darwin and his successors interred.

Similar analogies remain at the heart of both Behe's and Dembski's design arguments.

12-06-2002, 01:21 PM	#1
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	What is intelligent design theory? I mean, what is the theory??? That the universe was intelligently designed is a hypothesis. So, what's the actual theory?

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12-06-2002, 01:28 PM	#2
JusticeMachine Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 403	I guess the easiest way to put it is: Organic life is so complex, both in how it is constructed and the way it work, that it couldn't have been me chance that it occured. It had to have been designed. Probably an over-simplification, but there it is.

12-06-2002, 01:33 PM	#3
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	That's not a theory, though. Is there actually a theory?

12-06-2002, 01:44 PM	#4
JusticeMachine Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 403	Theory: 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. 2. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture. Are you looking for a set of statements or principles? What I said is a theory, if you read the second definition.

12-06-2002, 03:56 PM	#7
fando Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 1,372	I think it's best to call Intelligent Design a conjecture.

12-07-2002, 08:36 AM	#9
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	Hello JusticeMachine, and welcome to infidels. Feel free to introduce yourself here at the <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">Welcome Forum</a>. scigirl

12-07-2002, 09:15 AM	#10
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Here is the intelligent design "theory" (even Alvin Plantinga refers to this as its "classic statement"): In crossing a heath, suppose I pitched my foot against a stone, and were asked how the stone came to be there, I might possibly answer that for any thing I know to the contrary, it had lain there for ever: nor would it perhaps be very easy to show the absurdity of this answer. But suppose I had found a watch upon the ground and it should be inquired how the watch happened to be in that place, I should hardly think of the answer which I had before given, that, for any thing I know the watch might have always been there. Yet why should not this answer serve for the watch, as well as for the stone? For this reason and for no other: viz., that, when we come to inspect the watch, we perceive (what we could not discover in the stone) that its several parts are framed and put together for a purpose. - William Paley It's not a theory at all. It's a species of teleological argument for the existence of god by means of analogy, which Hume mortally wounded and Darwin and his successors interred. Similar analogies remain at the heart of both Behe's and Dembski's design arguments.

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