Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 04-16-2003, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike_decock
That doesn't follow. My human personality may change even though I remain human. I can't change my human-ness, but "just", "good" and "loving" are just aspects of my personality.

By the same manner, "just", "good" and "loving" are just personality traits of a God. Just look at the Greek pantheon.

I would say a God can't change his godliness but I think that would defy his supposed omnipotence (there's plenty of myths where gods turned themselves into men, so I guess that it is within the supposed abilities of a god).

-Mike...

How does not being able to not be God, affect His omnipotence? I think you are confused about what omnipotence means ( Hint: it doesn't mean can do anything imaginable, even that which defies God's nature and logic).

mike_decock · 04-16-2003, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
How does not being able to not be God, affect His omnipotence?

You misunderstood. If an omnipotent god became completely and exclusively human, then the former god would no longer be omnipotent. It was just a secondary thought.

The main point was that personality traits (good, loving, etc) have nothing to do with a being's humanity or divinity.

-Mike...

Amaranth · 04-16-2003, 07:40 AM

Quote:

I think you are confused about what omnipotence means ( Hint: it doesn't mean can do anything imaginable, even that which defies God's nature and logic)

om�nip�o�tent
adj.
Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.

Mageth · 04-16-2003, 08:22 AM

And you know what, frankly I don't care if you say its all myth and legend, because when He saves your life, and you feel his presence and love, no amount of evidence in the Universe, can ever change your mind.

Then how do you explain that I, like many atheists on this board, once were "saved", felt what we thought was God's presence and love, and yet now are atheists? I believed in god, considered myself "saved", and often felt what I thought was god's presence and love in my life for most of the first 45 years of my life.

And the evidence, thoroughly examined, brought all that crashing down.

(Let me guess, we weren't true Christians).

Magus55 · 04-16-2003, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
And you know what, frankly I don't care if you say its all myth and legend, because when He saves your life, and you feel his presence and love, no amount of evidence in the Universe, can ever change your mind.

Then how do you explain that I, like many atheists on this board, once were "saved", felt what we thought was God's presence and love, and yet now are atheists? I believed in god, considered myself "saved", and often felt what I thought was god's presence and love in my life for most of the first 45 years of my life.

And the evidence, thoroughly examined, brought all that crashing down.

(Let me guess, we weren't true Christians).

I'm not gonna say you weren't saved, since I don't know - only God does. If you were saved, what you are going through is known as backsliding. Where you turn away from God, and instead seek worldly pleasures. God may be backing off from convicting you, because He is letting you have time to think things through and deal with your own thing. Ultimately, you could very well eventually return to God if you were truly saved.

As the verse goes, nothing can snatch those who are saved from God's hands. It doesn't mean you can't turn away from Him. You could still end up in Heaven if you were truly saved, although your backsliding would likely affect you at judgement. God will decide what to do with you.

mike_decock · 04-16-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
If you were saved, what you are going through is known as backsliding. Where you turn away from God, and instead seek worldly pleasures.

Why would you assume that a person who is not longer a Christian turns to a life of seeking "worldy pleasures"? All the ex-Christians I have spoken to have maintained the same moral standards. In fact, many of them become more concerned with being more humane and tolerant.

I guess it's just one of the myths you're taught to believe: "People really believe in God at heart, they're just looking for an excuse to follow their own sinful desires".

Magus, it's a lie. People don't lose faith because they want to sin. They lose faith because they realize it's a myth.

-Mike...

Mageth · 04-16-2003, 12:53 PM

Well said, mike.

I'm not gonna say you weren't saved, since I don't know - only God does.

Kudos to you. You're one step ahead of many xians I've encountered on this site, then.

If you were saved, what you are going through is known as backsliding. Where you turn away from God, and instead seek worldly pleasures.

One step forward, two steps back. I don't seek any more "worldly pleasures" than you do. I have a job, a family, and am pretty much your boring, middle-class American. Indistinguishable from my Christian neighbors, I am. I live my life much as I did when I considered myself a Christian, except that I don't go to church much anymore.

God may be backing off from convicting you, because He is letting you have time to think things through and deal with your own thing. Ultimately, you could very well eventually return to God if you were truly saved.

Obviously, I don't consider this likely, since I lack belief in god. I'd have to believe in him for this to work. I was "truly saved" as far as the requirements for being saved are outlined in the bible, for what it's worth.

As the verse goes, nothing can snatch those who are saved from God's hands. It doesn't mean you can't turn away from Him. You could still end up in Heaven if you were truly saved, although your backsliding would likely affect you at judgement. God will decide what to do with you.

I think the bible is pretty clear on what will happen to non-believers at judgment. I don't think god is described as giving them much leeway.

That's one reason I don't believe in the particular god described in the bible. If there is a god, and an afterlife, I don't think there's a heaven/hell destination based on belief/non-belief in such a particular, strange way of gaining salvation. So I don't worry about it much; if there is a god, either he's good and, if there's an afterlife, it will be pleasant for all of us, or he's not good and there's no telling what it'll be like for any of us. So I don't concern myself with it.

malookiemaloo · 04-17-2003, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abacus
Eternity is a long time. Assuming that there really is a Heaven, what can one do to pass the time?

Have you ever loved someone so much that you just wanted to be with them?

m

Rousseau_CHN · 04-17-2003, 04:02 AM

Pretty virgins? sure... Mother Theresa was a virgin...pretty?

Mageth · 04-17-2003, 09:03 AM

Have you ever loved someone so much that you just wanted to be with them?

All the time for eternity? No.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-16-2003, 08:22 AM	#214
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	And you know what, frankly I don't care if you say its all myth and legend, because when He saves your life, and you feel his presence and love, no amount of evidence in the Universe, can ever change your mind. Then how do you explain that I, like many atheists on this board, once were "saved", felt what we thought was God's presence and love, and yet now are atheists? I believed in god, considered myself "saved", and often felt what I thought was god's presence and love in my life for most of the first 45 years of my life. And the evidence, thoroughly examined, brought all that crashing down. (Let me guess, we weren't true Christians).

04-16-2003, 12:53 PM	#217
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Well said, mike. I'm not gonna say you weren't saved, since I don't know - only God does. Kudos to you. You're one step ahead of many xians I've encountered on this site, then. If you were saved, what you are going through is known as backsliding. Where you turn away from God, and instead seek worldly pleasures. One step forward, two steps back. I don't seek any more "worldly pleasures" than you do. I have a job, a family, and am pretty much your boring, middle-class American. Indistinguishable from my Christian neighbors, I am. I live my life much as I did when I considered myself a Christian, except that I don't go to church much anymore. God may be backing off from convicting you, because He is letting you have time to think things through and deal with your own thing. Ultimately, you could very well eventually return to God if you were truly saved. Obviously, I don't consider this likely, since I lack belief in god. I'd have to believe in him for this to work. I was "truly saved" as far as the requirements for being saved are outlined in the bible, for what it's worth. As the verse goes, nothing can snatch those who are saved from God's hands. It doesn't mean you can't turn away from Him. You could still end up in Heaven if you were truly saved, although your backsliding would likely affect you at judgement. God will decide what to do with you. I think the bible is pretty clear on what will happen to non-believers at judgment. I don't think god is described as giving them much leeway. That's one reason I don't believe in the particular god described in the bible. If there is a god, and an afterlife, I don't think there's a heaven/hell destination based on belief/non-belief in such a particular, strange way of gaining salvation. So I don't worry about it much; if there is a god, either he's good and, if there's an afterlife, it will be pleasant for all of us, or he's not good and there's no telling what it'll be like for any of us. So I don't concern myself with it.

04-17-2003, 04:02 AM	#219
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	Pretty virgins? sure... Mother Theresa was a virgin...pretty?

04-17-2003, 09:03 AM	#220
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Have you ever loved someone so much that you just wanted to be with them? All the time for eternity? No.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.