David-Unfamous

Right, I'll give this a go:

I have free will, so I choose to not go to hell when I die.

As I don't believe in God, will I get into Heaven by my choosing?

If yes, then this is proof of free will and the existence of a loving God.

If no, then I don't have free will and will have to be sent to hell by God against my will (or I'll just be worm feed) which, either way, prooves there is no loving God. Or no God at all.


Am I talking arse? I'm new, so be gentle.

Rhea

Their claim will be that there are rules.

They will claim that gravity is not God's restricting of your free will, it's simply a "rule" that has consequences, most of which are good, but some of which are not. And so if you step off a cliff, and fall and die, it was your free will to subject yourself to the consequences of the rule.

Now, I dispute this, as God didn't HAVE to make gravity. But they will feel differently.

David-Unfamous

But surely all rules can be broken - is that not free will?

I suppose they may say that the speed of light is a rule or law - you can try to break it but can't.

But once again, if a rule is created so as to be impossible to defy, then that is a limitation as to what we can or can't do. And if c can't be excelled, then why not create a rule or law by which evil cannot happen?

Maybe excelling the speed of light causes 'light-booms' in heaven.

Hmm.. I need to think harder about this one.

Rhea

indeed, one might ask, if a god is setting up rules anmd consequences, why not make the consequence of trying to hurt others be instant excrutiating pain for the perp, rather than suffering for the victim. That consequence works splendidly for the rule of gravity, doesn't it? And very few people try to "break" the rules of gravity, don't they. Does this abrogate our free will? I don't think anyone minds the extremely severe consequences of defying gravity. And it is eminently just, and so easy for humans to embrace due to its immediacy.