Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hayden · 11-09-2002, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trebaxian Vir:
And I do not masturbate.

Herein lieth the problem!

HR

Seriously mate, stop analysing every single thing anyone does. What's next, the "Eating Rice-Bubbles is illogical and immoral" thread?

Oxymoron · 11-09-2002, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trebaxian Vir:
First of all, I believe that it is wrong because, by means of onanism, we mentally rape people. [ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Trebaxian Vir ]

Definition of rape: sexual intercourse without consent.

However, in my sexuals fantasies the ladies always consent. Ergo, no rape.

Now, some people DO have rape fantasies, INCLUDING women. This does not mean they wish to be raped, since in their fantasy they are 100% in control of what happens.

In general, a lot of thoughts and pictures and scenarios happen between our ears. Not all of these are pleasant or useful because under our higher-level cognitive functionality there lies a fight-flight survival machine that will do its utmost to propogate its genetic information. What makes us moral is how we act and react to these these things, not whether we have them.

Totalitarianist · 11-09-2002, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
I was under the impression that "onanism" was the "sin" of spilling one's seed on the ground. Under that definition, I would think that "onanism" encompasses withdrawal and perhaps even contraceptive use as well as masturbation. Anyway, it is ridiculous to use such a loaded religious term when attempting rational discussion, but then one doubts that you desire rational discussion.

Anyway, like most people around here, I have no problem with masturbation or oral sex or anal sex. In fact, I greatly enjoy all of them. Are they a "misuse" of my sexual organs? No, but then I think that their primary purpose is to provide me with pleasure.

You have always been the true master of the logical fallacy argumentum ad hominem (also, in this case, the "straw man" and "argumentum ad populum" fallacy).

I must say, your position on this subject is very narrow minded. Choking babies to death is a source of pleasure for some people. I suppose on this account that it is a natural use of one's own hands, because it is, like onanism, a source of pleasure. And yet pleasure is subjective. Considering the absurd possibility that using a part of the human body in a certain way (objective) is the misuse of it because of some subjective sentiment (pleasure), is quite irrational, as proven by the above mentioned example. Of course, rational discussion is one thing you are in the habit of avoiding.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Trebaxian Vir ]

Totalitarianist · 11-09-2002, 07:11 AM

You do realize that the sexual contact of a mental fantasy is not real?

Yes.

If someone else has a sexual fantasy about me in the privacy of their own mind and never touches or says anything suggestive to me, who gives a damn? I don't. I definately do not suffer the effects of rape!!! Holy Gawd.

And I suppose raping a boy in his sleep is okay, so long as he does not notice a thing.

Also I for one do not usually think of any specific person when I masturbate. What is the problem then?

Ejaculation.

My body is mine, why should I not use it any way I want?

The same thing can be said about people who have sex in public, for all the children to see.

Do you have to justify scratching your head?

The good man justifies absolutely everything.

Totalitarianist · 11-09-2002, 07:13 AM

Definition of rape: sexual intercourse without consent.

Figurative language.

In general, a lot of thoughts and pictures and scenarios happen between our ears. Not all of these are pleasant or useful because under our higher-level cognitive functionality there lies a fight-flight survival machine that will do its utmost to propogate its genetic information. What makes us moral is how we act and react to these these things, not whether we have them.

Morality is thought and behaviour.

Oxymoron · 11-09-2002, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trebaxian Vir:
Definition of rape: sexual intercourse without consent.

Figurative language.

Would you like to enlighten us with a better definition of rape?

Clearly, if the meanings of words (and the concepts behind them) cannot be agreed between us there's little point in you being here.

Quote:

In general, a lot of thoughts and pictures and scenarios happen between our ears. Not all of these are pleasant or useful because under our higher-level cognitive functionality there lies a fight-flight survival machine that will do its utmost to propogate its genetic information. What makes us moral is how we act and react to these these things, not whether we have them.

Morality is thought and behaviour.

So you never had a bad thought... ever? Gee, ever considered you might be the messiah? <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

More likely, you are at best dimly aware of the continuous chatter in your head, the commentary interpreting events in the world as well as your own thoughts and actions. I have a suggestion for you: stop what you're doing and listen to it. You may be surprised at what you hear.

Oh, and just to add some more 'Figurative Language' into the mix, here's the dictonary definition of 'Morality'

Quote:

Morality n:A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct.

That's 'conduct', not 'thought'.

Oxymoron · 11-09-2002, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trebaxian Vir:

Also I for one do not usually think of any specific person when I masturbate. What is the problem then?

Ejaculation.

So it's ok for women to masturbate then?

Totalitarianist · 11-09-2002, 08:24 AM

Would you like to enlighten us with a better definition of rape?

You fail to notice that I indicated in the original post that I believe this to be unimportant as concerns the aforesaid question: viz., "Is onanism a misuse of one's organs, and if so, why?" I said this under the impression that people would not comment on my own personal opinion on the matter. This is what I personally believe; this belief owes itself only to the unmovable moral code ingrained into my soul by my fellow creatures, not to reason. Every morality, especially those that we cannot drive out of our hearts, ought to be justified, in my perspective.
Onanism is in my opinion a sort of mental rape, but the question that concerns us for the moment, again, is whether it is a misuse of our sexual organs, is it unnatural and/or immoral, and if so or if not, why? No satisfactory answer has been given so far; but this is forgivable, for it is a peculiar question, a question most people have never been acquainted with.

That's 'conduct', not 'thought'.

I disagree with this definition, as do many religious persons.

edit: ubb

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Trebaxian Vir ]

Totalitarianist · 11-09-2002, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oxymoron:
So it's ok for women to masturbate then?

No, for masturbation entertains no valuable purpose.

rdalin · 11-09-2002, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trebaxian Vir:


And I do not masturbate. My life is, contrary to many people, dictated by a moral code.

Statistics show that 95% of all people masturbate. The other 5%? - they lie about it.

11-09-2002, 08:24 AM	#18
Totalitarianist Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,234	Would you like to enlighten us with a better definition of rape? You fail to notice that I indicated in the original post that I believe this to be unimportant as concerns the aforesaid question: viz., "Is onanism a misuse of one's organs, and if so, why?" I said this under the impression that people would not comment on my own personal opinion on the matter. This is what I personally believe; this belief owes itself only to the unmovable moral code ingrained into my soul by my fellow creatures, not to reason. Every morality, especially those that we cannot drive out of our hearts, ought to be justified, in my perspective. Onanism is in my opinion a sort of mental rape, but the question that concerns us for the moment, again, is whether it is a misuse of our sexual organs, is it unnatural and/or immoral, and if so or if not, why? No satisfactory answer has been given so far; but this is forgivable, for it is a peculiar question, a question most people have never been acquainted with. That's 'conduct', not 'thought'. I disagree with this definition, as do many religious persons. edit: ubb [ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Trebaxian Vir ]</p>

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11-09-2002, 07:11 AM	#14
Totalitarianist Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,234	You do realize that the sexual contact of a mental fantasy is not real? Yes. If someone else has a sexual fantasy about me in the privacy of their own mind and never touches or says anything suggestive to me, who gives a damn? I don't. I definately do not suffer the effects of rape!!! Holy Gawd. And I suppose raping a boy in his sleep is okay, so long as he does not notice a thing. Also I for one do not usually think of any specific person when I masturbate. What is the problem then? Ejaculation. My body is mine, why should I not use it any way I want? The same thing can be said about people who have sex in public, for all the children to see. Do you have to justify scratching your head? The good man justifies absolutely everything.

11-09-2002, 07:13 AM	#15
Totalitarianist Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,234	Definition of rape: sexual intercourse without consent. Figurative language. In general, a lot of thoughts and pictures and scenarios happen between our ears. Not all of these are pleasant or useful because under our higher-level cognitive functionality there lies a fight-flight survival machine that will do its utmost to propogate its genetic information. What makes us moral is how we act and react to these these things, not whether we have them. Morality is thought and behaviour.

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