Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Principia · 02-21-2003, 09:13 AM

From here:

Quote:

State Board of Education members on Thursday unanimously backed the teaching of evolution in West Virginia science classrooms.

The state board approved new science standards and tossed out suggested revisions from creation scientists and �intelligent design� supporters.

Those groups wanted the standards to encourage teachers and students to examine evolution more critically.

Board members declined to single out any scientific theories in the standards.

Science teachers across the state celebrated the vote.

�The board studied it hard and honestly and made the right decision,� said Mark Lynch, a science teacher at Lewis County High School. �They saw what the intelligent design people were offering, and they saw it was insufficient.�

�This just says we�re going to teach science as science,� said Jody Cunningham, who teaches at Parkersburg High School and also serves as president of the West Virginia Science Teachers Association.

John Calvert, managing director of the Intelligent Design network in Shawnee Mission, Kan., said board members might have voted differently if they had more time to study intelligent design.

The theory holds that nature is so complex it must have had a master designer.

�This issue is not going away,� Calvert said. �It will not go away as long as we have a free society.�

Board members were mostly silent before Thursday�s vote. School board President Howard Persinger Jr. read statements from scientists who criticize intelligent design.

Meanwhile, school board member Barbara Fish asked whether the standards would allow teachers to explain evolution theory objectively. Department of Education officials said the standards would.

Young-earth creationists and students marched to the lectern to criticize the science standards during Thursday�s meeting in Charleston.

One parent trotted out his son, and the two performed a skit that skewered evolution and the science standards.

Students said the standards were �hostile� to their religious views. They said they oppose science by indoctrination.

�They can�t prove evolution. They can�t prove it,� said Jerry E. Davis, a junior at Man High School in Logan County. �If you can�t prove it, how can you teach it?�

Other students said teaching evolution leads to numerous social ills such as increased drug use and crime among teens.

�You are teaching us with this theory that there is not a purpose to life,� said Mary Lynn Neese, a student at Nitro High School.

School board members rejected a summary statement that a Department of Education committee added to the standards last week to resolve a dispute with Calvert. The statement didn�t single out evolution.

Several retired scientists said Thursday that school leaders gave intelligent design advocates more consideration than they deserved.

�They have the same status of people who believe the Earth is flat,� said Charles Picay, a retired physicist.

In other business Thursday, the state board revised a proposal to establish a uniform grading system for high school students across the state.

The proposal, which board members plan to vote on in April, allows students to receive weighted grades in rigorous courses such as Advanced Placement classes.

Also Thursday, the state board approved the Raleigh County school board�s decision to close Marsh Fork High School in June.

To contact staff writer Eric Eyre, use e-mail or call 348-4869.

I guess Calvert will just have to learn that while he and his fellow IDiots may not "go away," they will continue to be marginalized, like any fringe element of a free society. NCSE has a similar story. So who's next? NM?

gcameron · 02-21-2003, 09:39 AM

This is encouraging but I am dubious about writing off ID'ers as a fringe. As long as they can keep chipping away at science standards from a political angle, how long can they be kept at bay? If you were to poll the U.S. Congress today I would be very surprised if even half of them would profess a belief in evolution, or would agree that ID/creationism should not be taught in public schools. Bush I have heard is for equal time, and our next Chief Justice (Scalia) dissented on a court decision against creationism, did he not?

Grad Student Humanist · 02-21-2003, 10:47 AM

This is the most progressive thing West Virginia has done since they broke away from Virginia in 1861.

Good for them!

Abacus · 02-21-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

�They can�t prove evolution. They can�t prove it,� said Jerry E. Davis, a junior at Man High School in Logan County. �If you can�t prove it, how can you teach it?�

Other students said teaching evolution leads to numerous social ills such as increased drug use and crime among teens.

�You are teaching us with this theory that there is not a purpose to life,� said Mary Lynn Neese, a student at Nitro High School.

This just kills me.

Gregg · 02-21-2003, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abacus
This just kills me.

They're just parroting the crap they hear from their parents, ministers, and Christian youth leaders. They haven't been taught to think for themselves.

I guess if she's taught about evolution, Mary Lynn will become a baby-killing crack whore.

Gregg

Gregg · 02-21-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gcameron
This is encouraging but I am dubious about writing off ID'ers as a fringe. As long as they can keep chipping away at science standards from a political angle, how long can they be kept at bay? If you were to poll the U.S. Congress today I would be very surprised if even half of them would profess a belief in evolution, or would agree that ID/creationism should not be taught in public schools. Bush I have heard is for equal time, and our next Chief Justice (Scalia) dissented on a court decision against creationism, did he not?

Well, decisions like this make me hopeful. And these school board debates force more people to become knowledgable about evolution and about the scientific method in general.

There's no question, though, that ID is the biggest threat to quality science education out there. IDists like John Calvert (who I've exchanged an e-mail or two with, he's based right across the state line in Kansas) are sneaky and have no shame, and they've learned how to present their case using convoluted legal and philosophical smoke screens that obscure the fact that they have no positive evidence whatsoever for ID. They will be tough to defeat.

On the other hand, they've become so unabashedly sleazy and lawyer-like in their methods that I think they're starting to turn a lot of people off.

Gregg

KC · 02-21-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gregg
They're just parroting the crap they hear from their parents, ministers, and Christian youth leaders. They haven't been taught to think for themselves.

I guess if she's taught about evolution, Mary Lynn will become a baby-killing crack whore.

Gregg

This reminds me of a statement that I heard over the Arkansas Bill a couple of years ago. One of the anti-evolution members of the legislature said something like 'If we teach our kids they are descendants of kings, then they will act like kings'.

I couldn't help thinking about the Windsors at that moment.

KC

Albion · 02-21-2003, 11:35 AM

The Windsors don't act like kings (apart from the Queen, who has an excuse), most of them seem to act like idiots.

KC · 02-21-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albion
The Windsors don't act like kings (apart from the Queen, who has an excuse), most of them seem to act like idiots.

My point exactly.

KC

gcameron · 02-21-2003, 02:02 PM

The whole idea of "if we are descended from apes then we are no more than apes" is so silly it barely deserves comment. Of course we are different from our ape ancestors (yeah, I know strictly speaking we are apes, but you get my point)... the whole point of evolution is that populations acquire different characteristics and capabilities over time. I mean you might as well say that "if we are descended from bacteria then we are no more than bacteria." Whoops! Guess I'd better stop playing the piano, because bacteria can't play the piano.

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02-21-2003, 09:39 AM	#2
gcameron Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Western U.S.A. Posts: 293	This is encouraging but I am dubious about writing off ID'ers as a fringe. As long as they can keep chipping away at science standards from a political angle, how long can they be kept at bay? If you were to poll the U.S. Congress today I would be very surprised if even half of them would profess a belief in evolution, or would agree that ID/creationism should not be taught in public schools. Bush I have heard is for equal time, and our next Chief Justice (Scalia) dissented on a court decision against creationism, did he not?

02-21-2003, 10:47 AM	#3
Grad Student Humanist Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melrose, MA Posts: 961	This is the most progressive thing West Virginia has done since they broke away from Virginia in 1861. Good for them!

02-21-2003, 11:35 AM	#8
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	The Windsors don't act like kings (apart from the Queen, who has an excuse), most of them seem to act like idiots.

02-21-2003, 02:02 PM	#10
gcameron Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Western U.S.A. Posts: 293	The whole idea of "if we are descended from apes then we are no more than apes" is so silly it barely deserves comment. Of course we are different from our ape ancestors (yeah, I know strictly speaking we are apes, but you get my point)... the whole point of evolution is that populations acquire different characteristics and capabilities over time. I mean you might as well say that "if we are descended from bacteria then we are no more than bacteria." Whoops! Guess I'd better stop playing the piano, because bacteria can't play the piano.

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