Novowels

Super Jesus?!?

General Zod

Jesus is saving his Ki energy for the final battle, of course. He can only use Super Jesus Level 3 for 10 minutes.

Eudaimonist

ROTFLOL!

agapeo

I see that even though you stated that you seriouslyasked the question some have seemed to have missed noting that. Hmm . . . I find that a serious problem that some seem to have.

agapeo

Perhaps to those who reject the doctrine it is a big problem but apparently for those that don't no problem exists.
Why? I don't see the connection. Perhaps he merely was in no hurry to get to place to place. Besides maybe he wished to walk so that he could admire his creation.
Good observation! Gee, and I had the audacity to point out where some others aren't taking your topic serious.
That could be true, but maybe he just wanted to see what food tasted like. In his spiritual form he wouldn't have taste buds to do so. Heck, I'm being flippant again, aren't I.
I think this is somewhat mentioned in the Bible: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written." Matt. 21:25 So it seems that only details that are important to the intended audience were written down. Besides, if they took the time to record everything (like when Jesus wiped his butt, blow his nose, etc., etc., etc.,) he did they probably wouldn't have time to write or do other things.
That depends on what Christians you ask. Although I would tend to agree (from my experience) that there are a lot of Christians that don't. But so what.
That seems like a pretty bold claim. How do you know they didn't happen?
Now this I have a problem with. Where do you get off thinking that that is your obligation?
I agree but then again when many of the minor details do seem to make sense upon looking at the overall "scope" of things one can say: "Oh well, I may not understand that, but I understand this and that is sufficient."

Hey, what's that up in the sky?! Is it a bird? A plane? Or could it be "superJesus"? :lol

HelenM

It wasn't 'feigned'. Christians believe that Jesus gave up the right to exercise most of his divine attributes while he was on earth as a man.

In most ways he was like other humans except that he was sinless.

That means that humans can be like him.

There are various theological reasons why it was important that he be like other humans - in most ways.

If you really want to know them I expect you can find them on some Christian site somewhere or other...

take care
Helen

woodchuck

agapeo, thanks for being willing to look at other sides of the story, thats pretty cool around here. I don't know what your beliefs are but at least you aren't as closed minded as most of the "free thinkers" around here.

Anyway, this is just another one of those arguments based more on mockery than honesty, so it's hard to take seriously as much as Hump-daddy wants us to. We all know that if it was recorded that Jesus flew, then this post would be called "why didn't Jesus have eye lasers? seriously" and Hump wouldn't be convinced any bit more- in fact, I think that if Jesus flew it would make his story too rediculous- of course, as the story originally does go, I know that most of you think it's rediculous, and I guess I did at one time too. Sometimes it still shocks the crap out of me that I'm defending Christ, when I used to be the guy mocking the super christian girl who used to pray for her lunch.

Anyway, I guess all i can say is that your gonna see Jesus how you want to, I can't change that. I believe the previously mentioned fig tree, walking on water, and turning water to wine we're not just for Jesus to show off, but i also don't think it's worth arguing that because we could blabber for ever and the fact remains that we just see it differently. And perhaps the fact remains that Hump doesn't WANT to see Jesus in any other light than a joke and I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind, as much as I think your missing out on.

So I'll let you know if next time I 'm kickin it with my homey JC he lets me in on why he didn't fly, but I think he'd just laugh like I did when I saw the question in the first place...
peace
-eef, the brain washed minion of the the great sorcerer of long ago <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Bible Humper

Hello Agapeo,

True, the problem changes for those who don't identify the founder as the deity.

For those who don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, here's a question for you. Was Yahweh merely granting enough power to demonstrate himself or did he genuinely want to help the people who he granted Jesus the power to heal? Why was the presence of Jesus necessary if he really wanted to help? Was he concerned with Jesus being present so he could get the credit? Is that what it was all for, is that all?

The disconnection is between the desire of Jesus to perform good and his ability to perform good, as written.

Yes, I realised that you were responding tongue in cheek.

Miraculous manifestations of the power of Jesus were, without the slightest doubt, considered so incredibly important that there is no way in hell they would leave them out.

The ability of Jesus to live without air, food and water would have cost them a single line, a simple observation that the son of the deity can feed himself on faith and love alone or some such thing.

Why did Jesus walk on water? Why did they "waste" so much ink to bother recording such a trifle? He didn't even utilise this miracle for locomotive purposes, so why bother?

"So what?" you ask! Incredible!

Are you aware that one of the objections of the early critics of christianity was that Jesus was "just another magnus(sorcerer)"? It seems that there were many men in those days capable of these sorts of feats, so it behooves us to assure ourselves that we aren't mistaken regarding Jesus.

This should be easy to do because this is a man with the power of a deity, whether because he is actually the deity himself or is a proxy used for it's ends is irrelevant.

You can imagine my shock when I realised that the Jesus accounts aren't consistent with this deity's potential and desires!!!

You mean to say that if you discovered that had you based your life on a lie, that you wouldn't be grateful for it being pointed out to you?


You have come so close with this sentence to describing how people can believe in anything!

"Looking at the overall scope of things" is basically reminding one's self that you have presupposed God, so there MUST be an answer if only you were wise enough to see it!

Bible Humper

What is this? Manifestation on Earth with one miraculous hand tied behind his back?

The first problem is that the omnipotent deity has no excuse for not doing things in such a way as to allow him access to his full power.

Jesus already demonstrated control over gravitation by walking on water, why did he merely do so for the sake of demonstration but not to do good? He was already healing the sick, was that out of a genuine desire to do good or just to demonstrate his power to the onlookers?

Was it all just a magic show? Is that all?

He was acting as the deity's proxy at this time, the deity's power was his to use as needed.

This would be plausible if he wasn't portrayed performing miracles, but you can't claim that the deity wanted to "fit in" or be "something we can be in all respects" when he walked on water, raised the dead, and transmuted water to wine. Among other things!

What are they? He already violated the laws of gravity by walking on water so that doesn't appear to be taboo!

You can't claim that being "human in most ways" makes it impossible to use the deity's powers, whenever he needed to, considering that fact that the miracles of Jesus weren't merely a pushing past the limits of the human body, such as telescopic vision, super high jumping, or whatever, but were things that are absolutely beyond our capabilities.

The feat of walking on water was surely not caused by some unknown gland capable of reversing gravitons!

No, if Jesus was the deity he was able to personally draw upon his power to allow himself to do so. If Jesus was the deity's proxy, he was able to request his intervention to allow him to do it.

Either way, there is something "more than human" there, beyond even an exaggerated human.

I have been unable to find anything about this, alas!

If you would, could you please give me a quick overview of what convinced YOU that the stories of Jesus were indeed consistent with a hypothetical manifestation on Earth by this deity?

You too, Helen.

[ October 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper ]</p>

HelenM

I'm sorry, Bible Humper, I don't have time to get into a detailed back-and-forth on this issue.

If I find a site that discusses the incarnation then I'll post the link.

In general, Jesus is portrayed as his supernatural power coming from the Holy Spirit, according to the will of God the Father. Which is also what Christians believe is available to them today. There's a verse in John's gospel where Jesus says (John 14:12) "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. That would seem to imply Jesus never did anything it would be impossible for Christians to do, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

To be honest I had a discussion about this with my associate pastor and we didn't entirely agree about whether all Jesus' power was from the Holy Spirit in the same way the power of Christians is, today (so Christians believe) or whether some of it was because of him being God so it was his own. (I haven't asked him about John 14:12 yet though . He thought Jesus sometimes did things in his own power but I said I thought it was all by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Anyway I might not have time to comment any further on this...

Helen