Bible Humper

Jesus is alleged to have been the flesh and blood incarnation of the omnipotent(or nearly so) one true deity. I find it odd that he would use his feet to get from "A" to "B", rather than flight for short distances, and perhaps teleportation for long distances.

The usual "free-will to believe or not" defense, routinely offered for questions of why the deity hides his power, can't be used here because Yahweh had already apparently suspended those rules during this time. This is proven by the performance of the other miracles, he was already demonstrating his divinity to the people anyway.


Can anyone think of a valid reason why the deity "faked it" and simulated the need to walk when flight is much more efficient, has the same desired potential to convince doubters as the other miracles did, and takes not one iota of additional effort on the omnipotent deity's part than walking?

I have seen theists explain the lack of writings by Jesus himself, his appearance to only a small amount of people, the myriad important things he could have taught the world for the greater good before he left, and many other details, by saying that he had only very limited time on earth to do his work.

Flight would have cut down his travel time dramatically, allowing him to make the very most of what time he had!

So, can anyone answer why the need to walk was feigned by the deity?

woodchuck

Jesus didnt fly because back in those days there were pterydactyls everywhere flying around and he didnt want to get eaten before he got crucified. Plus the 12 disciples wouldnt have been able to keep up with him, he would have had to make a little back pack to carry them all in after he used his special powers to shrink them... i mean gees, he walked on water, give the man a break. Of course he did ascend into heaven, did he not, and he also must have teleported when he met the disciples in the upper room or whatever it was. Sheesh, the guy doesnt fly and you gotta piss your pants about it? Yu guys look for anything to wine about around here! Im sure that if Jesus did fly, then you would suddenly believe and stop your bible humping ways.

and if you even look at my bible funny Im callin the cops...
-eef the woodchuck

Eudaimonist

If I were Jesus, I would have held out for SuperSaiyan powers. KA-ME-HA-ME-HAAAA! Take that Roman soldiers!



Okay, seriously. I can think of many easy ways out for Christians. They could say that Jesus wanted to relate to human beings, and chose the right cultural way to do so. Or, Jesus was like Gandalf, and only used enough of his powers to complete his mission.

Basically, the "why didn't Jesus fly?" asks for speculation, and Christians can speculate their way out of anything.

Bible Humper

LOL @ Woodchuck


Eudaimonist:

I had anticipated that answer, the problem with it is that there was already no way that these people could relate to him once they saw even the lesser of his miracles.

Look at the reaction of people when someone finds a pattern that looks vaguely face-like on a tortilla, pilgrims come from all over the country to bow down to it! What would be their reaction to a man who was performing miracles right in front of them?

Jesus would already have been seen as something more than human to anyone who saw him in action, and it doesn't seem that the "Gandalf answer" could be defended when he performed minor miracles that were little more than demonstrations of his powers, like turning water to wine and water walking. Gandalf was also bound by rules dictated by beings more authoritative than himself, Yahweh wouldn't have had that problem.

I don't see how flying could prevent people from relating to Jesus when raising the dead didn't have that effect! If anything, raising the dead would cause the audience of Jesus to wonder if this is some kind of necromancer in league with the underworld!

The point, of course, is that the stories of Jesus are totally inconsistent with a deity's avatar.

woodchuck

Ok, woodchucks got some specualtin to do:
I will once again quote the humper of the word of God:

Ok bible humper- if YOU were Jesus you would fly. The reason being is because your focus is on yourself, not on others. I'm not condemning you, I'd probably do it to- in fact I'd probably do other stuff like make peoples heads explode at random and teleport peoples testicles into their hot coffee. But I'm just pointing out the difference in the character between the fallen and the Son of God.

Jesus obviously had great power, of which he always gave God the glory and said that it was always of the Father. But Jesus's miracles were never for him- they were always for others. Jesus came to be a sacrifice to us, not just in his death, but also in his life- that's what is so mind blowing about the story of Christ. A God who comes to earth, not to punish, not to judge, but to be a servant, and to be beaten and killed by his own creation. Yes, Jesus could have made a rocket pack come out of his butt and shot into space before the Roman soldiers got hold of him- but that's what is so awesome about Him, and so contrary to our own nature- He willngly died, and He used all of his power for others.

And it is recorded that the disciples did the things Jesus did- they healed, and when Jesus walked on water, didn't Simon Peter also? Jesus did not come to display his power- throughout the Old Testament God made His power well known, but power does not change a man's heart- LOVE does. Jesus came to be the image of perfect love. And the only reason I follow is because of Love, not because God makes me do it because He's powerful.

Anyway, I know your on your knees right now prayin your heart out so I'll stop talking. But hey you asked.

Ok, I'm going to go pray for my testicle teleporting powers, so you guys better watch out how you treat the woodchuck.
-eef <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

[ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: woodchuck ]</p>

Walter_Mitty

This just in from the mind blowing department:

An omniscent and omnipotent being that sends part of itself as payment for the sin's of of a flawed creation that it is responsible for creating.

Of course, if you're not a Christian and don't "believe," despite this sacrifice, you are still punished and judged.

BTW, I have some beach front property in western Nebraska that I'm putting up for sale. Interested?

[ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: Bibliophile ]</p>

agapeo

Originally posted by Eudaimonist:
Okay, I'll take you seriously.
Good! Can you give me some more besides:
Although these are good! They're not good enough for me.
True! Could I add one more speculation (that has probably already been done)? Perhaps the reason that Jesus didn't fly during his lifetime was that he wasn't God and therefore God only gave him the power to do what was necessary to acheive his goal. OTOH maybe being in an earthen vessel he needed the exercise.

Walter_Mitty

Actually, I'm headed to the throne room to have a religious experience. But that's another story!

Bible Humper

Flying is not comparable to the uses you described. I don't see what is so "high character" about cursing fig trees, turning water to wine, and walking on water to impress the spectators so I don't think that you can argue that Jesus only used his powers if it directly did something admirable.

Another problem with this is that superior means of locomotion would have allowed him to perform many more of these deeds of high character, if he was dedicated to using his miracles for this purpose, so it seems there was great incentive for him to fly and nothing important enough to outweigh this option.

But the father and the son are one. If his goal was to help others, flying would have enabled him to do so much more.

Were the miracles performed just to show off or what?

Keep in mind that I find the fact that he didn't fly inconsistent because of it's utility, not because Jesus would have wanted to have fun or show off.


So it was all just a magic show? Is that all?

He planned his own execution as a sacrifice of himself to himself to pay himself off for the violations of his own laws by his own creations. More than that, he only performed miracles as part of the show, never utilising more than a tiny fraction of his potential.

Not even close! He didn't fly, for one.

He didn't come to display his power, but yet he allegedly performed his miracles in front of witnesses, eh?

Why would he perform such tricks as walk on water if he didn't want to display his powers but only use his miracles for the good of man?

The stories of Jesus are totally inconsistent with a deity's avatar. You could make a case that he was a mere sorcerer, though, and interestingly enough the early christians did portray him using a wand!

Thanks for the replies, I hope you respond again.

LOL. That power doesn't seem to be much more frivolous than curses for fig trees, so perhaps you'll get it!

Bible Humper

The biggest problem is that the doctrine of Jesus being God is central to their faith.

A second problem is that Jesus is supposed to have performed his healings and exorcisms out of the kindness of his heart, not as a mere demonstration, so flight is just important as the actual ability to heal for all the people outside of his walking distance.

I know your comment about exercise wasn't serious, but it does touch on the many related problems with the accounts. Not only would the deity not need to exercise, but he would also have no need for breathing, eating, and drinking.

I would expect to hear some mention of details such as this if the accounts were indeed reports from witnesses. If you took a gifted fiction writer today, with all the sources of inspiration available for him to borrow from, and gave him the task of crafting an airtight story of a deity's avatar on Earth, he still would not be able to do it perfectly.

I find it strange, though, that the christian stories of Jesus don't come under this same basic scrutiny. It is no surprise that the stories of Jesus don't even vaguely approximate a realistic portrayal, since they didn't happen, but the only way of showing them the absurdity of their beliefs is to make them look at them.

There are millions of minor details that just don't make sense.