Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Valentine Pontifex · 10-05-2002, 03:05 PM

Those who watch the young-earth arguments might want to look at <a href="http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3598" target="_blank">this thread</a>.

RufusAtticus · 10-05-2002, 04:16 PM

LOL. Don't they have fact checkers?

Oh yeah, ICR was the one who said Sputnic was 1957.

tgamble · 10-05-2002, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus:
[QB]Our zircon data agree with recently published data from another site,9 and both agree with our "Creation" model. The data allow us to calculate how long diffusion has been taking place�between 4,000 and 14,000 years! The diffusion rates are nearly 100,000 times higher than the maximum rates the "Evolution" model could allow. That leaves no hope for the 1.5 billion years. For most of that alleged time, the zircons would have to have been as cold as liquid nitrogen (196�C below zero) to retain the observed amount of helium.

Quote:

To bad creationists never show their work. It would be a simple matter to correct the sign error if they did.... 196 deg C below zero should, of course, be a positive 196 deg C.

196 degrees is cold? What am I missing here?

ps418 · 10-05-2002, 07:08 PM

Tgamble,
According to the source cited by WeHappyFew, the closure temperature for He diffusion in zircon is +~160��210�C, not -196C (Reiners et al., 2002). Helium can be retained in zircon below this temperature.

Reiners, P. W., K. A. Farley, and H. J. Hickes, He diffusion and (U-Th)/He thermochronometry of zircon: Initial results from Fish Canyon Tuff and Gold Butte, Nevada, Tectonophysics, in press, 2002.

Bubba · 10-05-2002, 07:28 PM

Thanks for the link. The antics of some organizations get more interesting all of the time.

Bubba

wehappyfew · 10-10-2002, 03:49 PM

Thanks for the plug, Val.

You all might want to see the other thread I'm involved with dealing with similar issues...

<a href="http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2756" target="_blank">Reply from Walt Brown</a>

It's put up or shut up time for bob, I think.

Coragyps · 10-10-2002, 04:29 PM

WHF - Everything in Science back to 1895 is, in fact, online, but only to subscribers. So unless Gentry or a co-author has the 1982 paper on their site, it's not likely to be accessable online.
Bob B sounds like a real ray of sunshine, neh?

S2Focus · 10-12-2002, 02:23 PM

FYI, David Thomas (president of New Mexicans for Science and Reason) has posted an amusing article entitled,
Russell Humphreys and his "Cryogenic Earth" Model: Or, "What's 750 degrees Fahrenheit between Friends?" at <a href="http://www.nmsr.org/humphrey.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nmsr.org/humphrey.htm</a>

[ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: S2Focus ]</p>

Valentine Pontifex · 10-12-2002, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by S2Focus:
<strong>FYI, David Thomas (president of New Mexicans for Science and Reason) has posted an amusing article entitled,
Russell Humphreys and his "Cryogenic Earth" Model: Or, "What's 750 degrees Fahrenheit between Friends?" at <a href="http://www.nmsr.org/humphrey.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nmsr.org/humphrey.htm</a>
</strong>

Hey it looks like you beet me to the punch on that one. :-)

It is all started because of wehappyfew was observant. I and I am sure others made sure that his observation got spread around the net quickly.

RufusAtticus · 10-12-2002, 09:20 PM

Some one needs to preserve the icr page. Remember their 9/11 piece where they screwed up the year of Sputnic and some other things. It was a great example of the non-existing peer-review at ICR. However, they eventually pulled the article and quietly inserted version 1.1 with out ever publishing a mention of errata.

10-05-2002, 03:05 PM	#1
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	ICR strikes again --- or multiply by -1 Those who watch the young-earth arguments might want to look at <a href="http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3598" target="_blank">this thread</a>.

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10-05-2002, 04:16 PM	#2
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	LOL. Don't they have fact checkers? Oh yeah, ICR was the one who said Sputnic was 1957.

10-05-2002, 07:08 PM	#4
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	Tgamble, According to the source cited by WeHappyFew, the closure temperature for He diffusion in zircon is +~160��210�C, not -196C (Reiners et al., 2002). Helium can be retained in zircon below this temperature. Reiners, P. W., K. A. Farley, and H. J. Hickes, He diffusion and (U-Th)/He thermochronometry of zircon: Initial results from Fish Canyon Tuff and Gold Butte, Nevada, Tectonophysics, in press, 2002.

10-05-2002, 07:28 PM	#5
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	Thanks for the link. The antics of some organizations get more interesting all of the time. Bubba

10-10-2002, 03:49 PM	#6
wehappyfew Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 43	Thanks for the plug, Val. You all might want to see the other thread I'm involved with dealing with similar issues... <a href="http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2756" target="_blank">Reply from Walt Brown</a> It's put up or shut up time for bob, I think.

10-10-2002, 04:29 PM	#7
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	WHF - Everything in Science back to 1895 is, in fact, online, but only to subscribers. So unless Gentry or a co-author has the 1982 paper on their site, it's not likely to be accessable online. Bob B sounds like a real ray of sunshine, neh?

10-12-2002, 02:23 PM	#8
S2Focus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 1162 easy freeway minutes from the new ICR in TX Posts: 896	FYI, David Thomas (president of New Mexicans for Science and Reason) has posted an amusing article entitled, Russell Humphreys and his "Cryogenic Earth" Model: Or, "What's 750 degrees Fahrenheit between Friends?" at <a href="http://www.nmsr.org/humphrey.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nmsr.org/humphrey.htm</a> [ October 12, 2002: Message edited by: S2Focus ]</p>

10-12-2002, 09:20 PM	#10
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Some one needs to preserve the icr page. Remember their 9/11 piece where they screwed up the year of Sputnic and some other things. It was a great example of the non-existing peer-review at ICR. However, they eventually pulled the article and quietly inserted version 1.1 with out ever publishing a mention of errata.

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