Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vinnie · 10-10-2002, 07:06 AM

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/ilgwamh/universe.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/ilgwamh/universe.html</a>

Skydancer · 10-10-2002, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vinnie:
<strong><a href="http://www.geocities.com/ilgwamh/universe.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/ilgwamh/universe.html</a></strong>

Ah, yes... Goldilocks cosmology. The old bit about all the parameters needing to be 'just right' to produce us, therefore there must be a Designer. And as usual, ignoring the possibility that different parameters would probably produce life as we don't know it. And a few of his 'required' parameters are questionable anyway. Stable solar orbit presumbably refers to the sun's orbit around galactic center - but if the sun is tossed out of the galaxy, so what? Other stars are pretty but do not seem to be required for life on Earth.

Camaban · 10-10-2002, 03:21 PM

Quote:

The old bit about all the parameters needing to be 'just right' to produce us, therefore there must be a Designer

What these people never seem to think about is if we started on, say, neptune (I'd heard something about ammonia being a suitable replacement for water at low temperatures. Not sure how true that is, but that's beside the point) We'd be looking on earth as an incredibly ugly and inhospitable place. (Wow. water is actually LIQUID there, sort of thing. Kinda like those artists conceptions pictures of the surface of Venus)

Neruda · 10-10-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

What these people never seem to think about is if we started on, say, neptune (I'd heard something about ammonia being a suitable replacement for water at low temperatures. Not sure how true that is, but that's beside the point) We'd be looking on earth as an incredibly ugly and inhospitable place. (Wow. water is actually LIQUID there, sort of thing.

yeah, and it's so hot and bright on Earth! truly a hellish place to live, I would imagine.

Vinnie · 10-10-2002, 08:16 PM

All I see here is wishful thinking thus far. Example 1:

"I once heard something about ammonia being a suitable replacement for water but I have no clue if this is true or not". Of course it was conceded that this was "beside the point."

Example 2:
"It may seem inhospitable for life on Neptune from our perspective but maybe some "hitherto unknown form of advanced life" I can speculate and create out of whole cloth into anything I wish may be able to survive there".

It seems it was also commented that a neptunian being might think the earth was hellishly hot and inhospitable for life. My response, do you even have the remotest clue as to what it is like on Neptune?!!!???!!!! The temperature, windpeed etc? Do you even know if Neptune has a solid core or not or what it is composed of? And I granted the possibility of basic life developing elsewhere. My beef was more with advanced intelligent life so if all of you could stick to that I would appreciate it. Let me also note that you cannot simply imagine alternative forms of life. This assertion needs to be substantiated. Until then its nothing more than an invisible pink elephant.

Choosing inside the event horizon of a black hole as a prospective candidate for intelligent life isn't much more ridiculous than choosing neptune. I've seen nothing but wild speculations in response to my paper. Feel free to add something substantial.

Vinnie

Kevin Dorner · 10-10-2002, 08:22 PM

Given that this thread deals with cosmology instead of biological evolution (and so far doesn't seem to be moving towards it) I think it would be better suited to Science and Skepticism.

The thread is still open there (as of its being moved) so please feel free to access it there and contribute further.

Doubting Didymus · 10-10-2002, 08:28 PM

You didn't give it enough time, Kevin. I was just about to ask vinnie what he thinks are the neccessary conditions for the evolution of life.

Kevin Dorner · 10-10-2002, 09:12 PM

Vinnie clearly doesn't have any issues with evolution from the essay, and it deals alsmost completely with cosmology, but if you are successful in diverting the thread to E/C it can get moved back there again and I'll not move it. Just seemed like a better fit here.

Doubting Didymus · 10-10-2002, 09:22 PM

Okie dokie

So vinnie, what do you consider to be the minimum nessecary conditions for life to arise?

Jeremy Pallant · 10-10-2002, 09:44 PM

Vinnie, the thing you have to remember is that the only life we know of for sure, is on this planet. Therefore there is a temptation to assume that life can only exist under earth-like circumstances. A study sample of one planet hardly justifies the conclusion that these are the only circumstances under which life can thrive.

10-10-2002, 07:06 AM	#1
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	Cosmological theology... <a href="http://www.geocities.com/ilgwamh/universe.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/ilgwamh/universe.html</a>

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10-10-2002, 08:16 PM	#5
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	All I see here is wishful thinking thus far. Example 1: "I once heard something about ammonia being a suitable replacement for water but I have no clue if this is true or not". Of course it was conceded that this was "beside the point." Example 2: "It may seem inhospitable for life on Neptune from our perspective but maybe some "hitherto unknown form of advanced life" I can speculate and create out of whole cloth into anything I wish may be able to survive there". It seems it was also commented that a neptunian being might think the earth was hellishly hot and inhospitable for life. My response, do you even have the remotest clue as to what it is like on Neptune?!!!???!!!! The temperature, windpeed etc? Do you even know if Neptune has a solid core or not or what it is composed of? And I granted the possibility of basic life developing elsewhere. My beef was more with advanced intelligent life so if all of you could stick to that I would appreciate it. Let me also note that you cannot simply imagine alternative forms of life. This assertion needs to be substantiated. Until then its nothing more than an invisible pink elephant. Choosing inside the event horizon of a black hole as a prospective candidate for intelligent life isn't much more ridiculous than choosing neptune. I've seen nothing but wild speculations in response to my paper. Feel free to add something substantial. Vinnie

10-10-2002, 08:22 PM	#6
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	Given that this thread deals with cosmology instead of biological evolution (and so far doesn't seem to be moving towards it) I think it would be better suited to Science and Skepticism. The thread is still open there (as of its being moved) so please feel free to access it there and contribute further.

10-10-2002, 08:28 PM	#7
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	You didn't give it enough time, Kevin. I was just about to ask vinnie what he thinks are the neccessary conditions for the evolution of life.

10-10-2002, 09:12 PM	#8
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	Vinnie clearly doesn't have any issues with evolution from the essay, and it deals alsmost completely with cosmology, but if you are successful in diverting the thread to E/C it can get moved back there again and I'll not move it. Just seemed like a better fit here.

10-10-2002, 09:22 PM	#9
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Okie dokie So vinnie, what do you consider to be the minimum nessecary conditions for life to arise?

10-10-2002, 09:44 PM	#10
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	Vinnie, the thing you have to remember is that the only life we know of for sure, is on this planet. Therefore there is a temptation to assume that life can only exist under earth-like circumstances. A study sample of one planet hardly justifies the conclusion that these are the only circumstances under which life can thrive.

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