agnawstick

It basically boils down to me, who are you going to listen to for guidance in the end. The alleged quotes from Jesus tell you to do one thing, Paul says you don't have to do so. Do you believe Jesus or Paul if you are a christian?

Jesus told Christians to love your enemy, turn the other cheek, do not be a hypocrite, criticize others when you have your own faults to deal with, to pray in private, renounce your wealth, give to any who ask, if they ask for your coat, give your cloak as well. Embrace tax collectors, and prostitutes etc...

Paul won. Christianity is nothing like Jesus asked for whatsoever.
That is all the pity. If christians actually act like what Jesus allegedly said, I think the world would have less of a problem with them.

They claim to love Jesus and ignore what he told them to do. Gandhi, who died with a prayer book, a robe, and a pair of shoes and nothing else is the life Jesus asked for from his followers, and it ain't happening. You are justified by Faith, not by actions.

You can be Jimmy Swaggart and say that God is physically observing you while you are getting serviced by the hooker, and still do it. Liars and hypocrites. Christians don't believe in Jesus or God. They believe in Paul. They believe that no matter how shitty they act, God isn't actually watching them do it. It doesn't matter anyways because Paul said they just have to believe in Jesus to get to heaven.

What a load of unadulterated crap. Read James if ya want to see what Jesus' brother and appointed disciple thought of Paul's thinking.

So christians had a choice. Listen to the words of Jesus or his brother James, or listen to a pharisee, confessed murderer of jewish christians had to say, after claiming he saw Jesus in a vision. Ignore those who claim to have seen him in the flesh, or shared the same mother.

Why? It's so freaking easy. You don't have to give up your wealth. You don't have to love hookers, tax collectors, gays, the poor. You don't have to give to the poor, or show compassion. You are justified by your faith.

I would just love for one christian to come here and tell me that Jesus was mistaken. He told the people an erroneous message, and he revealed an erroneous message to his brother James, that he had to rectify later through Paul. If Jesus was wrong about what he preached, but only through Paul's twisted formulae one can be saved, what in the hell kinda religion is it anyways?

trillian

Just a thought....Paul was a salesman selling a foreign belief in a land of "pagans". With a Jewish requirement for circumcision you must realize he had a problem selling it to the masses of non-jewish adult males who would have a problem cutting off part of their penises to convert. They also would have a problem of thinking they'd sinned their whole lives by not doing acts in accordance with the jewish god. Jesus only preached to Jews (yet on occasion "fed the dogs") as we know, so Paul had different circumstances.
Requirements certainly had to change or he would get no converts. Paul simply fit the beliefs/actions to a palatable realm for the peoples in lands where he preached. It's really all a simple marketing strategy to overthrow the current doctrines in the most efficient way. Warped...but effective as we all know now.

trillian

EstherRose

You will not find a Christian out there who believed that no matter how badly they act, God isn’t watching them. You won’t find a Christian out there who thinks it doesn’t matter how they behave because they are still saved.

It matters very much how we act! We don’t need the threat of having salvation removed from us to behave in as godly a manner as possible. We want to follow the dictates and wishes of God. We want to live holy and sinless lives. We know, as humans, that we are sinful and will falter, but we try to live according to the wishes of our Lord. If you know any Christians who read the bible and try to follow it, I bet you’ll find that they give of themselves to help others. They do it because they want to, not because they feel under threat from God.

Peter Kirby

Millions. If you'd like to be enlightened on this subject, however, I suggest the General Religious Discussions forum. Discussing the charity of skeptics is not part of our charter here. (Note to everyone else: please don't respond to this paragraph from EstherRose in this forum.)

best,
Peter Kirby

EstherRose

I'm sorry, I did not realize I stepped out of line. I will edit out what I posted that you found offensive.

agnawstick

Is it the whole invisibility thing then? Would Jimmy Swaggart have done the hooker if he saw his mother in the room? That is what I don't get. Why would you do anything in front of God that you wouldn't do in front of your parents? A: You don't really believe God is there in a personal way. If you truly truly believed that, you wouldn't do that, just as you wouldn't truly truly do certain things with your parents personally observing you.

To me, sin is a lack of faith. If you really believe God is watching you, you don't do it. If you believed your priest/minister was in the room how would you act? Much differently than "so called believers act" in the presence of a personal God who is watching them.