Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Arc · 01-03-2003, 06:36 PM

Hello all! New user here, though I've been an avid reader of these forums for a while now.

Anyway, since it is a favorite subject of mine, I thought I'd bring up the topic of nanotechnology. To be honest, when I first heard of the concept I thought it sounded rather unlikely, but since then I've done a lot of research on it and I am convinced it will play a major role in our future.

Of course, much to my misfortune I am merely an idealistic and youthful highschool junior, so I can't really get my hopes up. However, I've read just about everything (that I can understand, technical papers are as yet a bit beyond my grasp) on the subject I can find, and done a few projects on it. Everything I've read basically says we'll probably be seeing nanotech-manufacturing in as little as 10-20 years, and medical nanotech not long after that!

If I'm reading my data correctly, the changes this kind of technology would cause in our society would be akin to those of the industrial revolution! So how come I don't hear more about this kind of stuff? Since you guys and gals are assuredly much more knowledgable on things like this, I'm interested in what your opinions on nanotech are. Is it even plausible, or should I not get my hopes up and drop the school projects I've been dazzling my teachers with lately?

Demosthenes · 01-03-2003, 07:00 PM

Oh yes it's very plausible, afterall the old cliche in the nanotech circles is, "if you want to see an example of nanotechnology, look in the mirror"

Keep up your reading and research, it'll serve you a very useful purpose when the waves of nanotech finally hit us. Right now, it's just starting to gain momentum in the industry, the people are still looking at it from the practical angle. It's the theorists and the visionaries who are looking much futher than the usual masses of people.

I'm constantly keen in reading the lastest news afterall I'm of the mind to get involved in that area and maybe set up a business too. Right now, what people call nanotechology isn't likely to be what the theorists are thinking about which is molecular manufacturing and manipulation. The current definition of industry's nanotechnology is more alike to lithography. There's an article in the foresight slashdot portal which discusses about the differences and proposes calling the advanced theoretical molecular technology mechutech and leave the nanotechnology term to the industrical uncouth.

Please excuse me, I tend to ramble on this type of subject.

fando · 01-03-2003, 07:03 PM

Oh, you'll hear a lot more when you get to college. If you're interested enough, you might end up doing something related to nanotechnology yourself.

Nanotechnology is definitely possible and is happening. Convince yourself with Feynman's classical talk, There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom and read up on all the exciting new developments. I'm sure I don't have to point to any in particular, just read science news.

The future of nanotechnology is so bright, you need to wear shades. It has the potential to bring great change to the world, both societal and technological. The only science fiction author I'm aware of who fully visuallized what is possible in a world with pervasive nanotechnology is Niel Stephenson. His work is Diamond Age.

Oh, and welcome to the II forums!

Demosthenes · 01-03-2003, 07:15 PM

not to rain on you, but actually Neal wasn't the first one to consider the possibilites of a pervasive nanotechnology, the author with the honor is Kathleen Ann Goonan.

Arc · 01-03-2003, 08:05 PM

Mechutech, hm? I haven't heard that term before, I'll have to look into it. I think the lithography aspect of nanotech is pretty interesting, but it seems to me like DNA or quantum computers, if either is plausible, would be more powerful.

As for college(which I can't wait to get to, my highschool is pretty sub-par), are there really any majors dealing directly with nanotechnology? I haven't heard of any like that, and I really don't know what kind of fields nanotech would specifically be under. I suppose that might be a good thing, I'm having enough trouble deciding between pursuing a major in physics or computer science, I don't need a third option distracting me even more. Maybe I'll triple-major.

Coincidentally, I just ordered Diamond Age off amazon.com about a week ago, heh. Looks like a pretty good book--any other suggestions?

Thanks for all this info, looks like I've got some more research to do.

fando · 01-03-2003, 10:04 PM

Honestly speaking, I say go for Applied Physics. Choose a college that has a nanotech thing going on, the field is mostly APh related with some interdisciplinary mixing. (Engineering, Biology, hardcore Physics, etc.) Computer Science tends to be of two types: the more theoretical stuff (math) and the more practical stuff (programming). You can easily learn the latter without having to do CS, and the former is of use only if you're into hardcore math. CS is not really that useful if you want to migrate to Physics related fields. However, if you start from Physics, it's easy to fall back into CS.

alek0 · 01-03-2003, 10:48 PM

Applied Physics is a good choice if you have interest in nanotechnology.

However, you should be aware that mainstream Nanotechnology is not at all related to Drexler's universal assemblers. Which doesn't mean that nanotechnology isn't exciting enough without SciFi dreams in it. I would also like to add that there are many nanotechnology products already on the market or close to it. Samsung has made prototypes of carbon nanotube based field emission displays, looks quite nice. But most of the stuff which is on the market is mainly application of nanotechnology to improve existing products, nothing particularly new and revolutionary. Some big changes will have to happen however if the miniaturization of integrated circuits will continue. Not only that photolithography will need to be replaced, but also novel device designs are needed to replace MOS transistors.

enigma555 · 01-05-2003, 12:38 AM

Just FYI, there is a blurb on nanotech memory devices in this month's "Scientific American"

It's pretty interesting because they go into the problems they had to find solutions for - not just: "Here is this new device"

Arc · 01-05-2003, 01:09 AM

I've been meaning to drop my subscription to Popular Science and go for Scientific American for exactly that reason. Thanks for letting me know, though, I'll see if I can view that article off their website.

And back to something in which I meant to go further in-depth: what do all of you think the implications of medical nanotechnology would be? Seems to me that it could easily serve as a cure to nearly any disease, so I'm wondering why there isn't more general public interest in the subject...

And as another thread was speculating on what an economy would be like if humans made themselves immortal: well, if we accomplish that with nanotech, I imagine we'd also have those wonderful Drexler assemblers. Now what would THOSE do to the economy?

fando · 01-05-2003, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arc
I imagine we'd also have those wonderful Drexler assemblers. Now what would THOSE do to the economy?

Two possible outcomes are covered by Stephenson in Diamond Age. I'm sure you'll enjoy the book.

01-03-2003, 06:36 PM	#1
Arc Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you! Posts: 8	Nanotechnology Hello all! New user here, though I've been an avid reader of these forums for a while now. Anyway, since it is a favorite subject of mine, I thought I'd bring up the topic of nanotechnology. To be honest, when I first heard of the concept I thought it sounded rather unlikely, but since then I've done a lot of research on it and I am convinced it will play a major role in our future. Of course, much to my misfortune I am merely an idealistic and youthful highschool junior, so I can't really get my hopes up. However, I've read just about everything (that I can understand, technical papers are as yet a bit beyond my grasp) on the subject I can find, and done a few projects on it. Everything I've read basically says we'll probably be seeing nanotech-manufacturing in as little as 10-20 years, and medical nanotech not long after that! If I'm reading my data correctly, the changes this kind of technology would cause in our society would be akin to those of the industrial revolution! So how come I don't hear more about this kind of stuff? Since you guys and gals are assuredly much more knowledgable on things like this, I'm interested in what your opinions on nanotech are. Is it even plausible, or should I not get my hopes up and drop the school projects I've been dazzling my teachers with lately?

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01-03-2003, 07:00 PM	#2
Demosthenes Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: a speck of dirt Posts: 2,510	Oh yes it's very plausible, afterall the old cliche in the nanotech circles is, "if you want to see an example of nanotechnology, look in the mirror" Keep up your reading and research, it'll serve you a very useful purpose when the waves of nanotech finally hit us. Right now, it's just starting to gain momentum in the industry, the people are still looking at it from the practical angle. It's the theorists and the visionaries who are looking much futher than the usual masses of people. I'm constantly keen in reading the lastest news afterall I'm of the mind to get involved in that area and maybe set up a business too. Right now, what people call nanotechology isn't likely to be what the theorists are thinking about which is molecular manufacturing and manipulation. The current definition of industry's nanotechnology is more alike to lithography. There's an article in the foresight slashdot portal which discusses about the differences and proposes calling the advanced theoretical molecular technology mechutech and leave the nanotechnology term to the industrical uncouth. Please excuse me, I tend to ramble on this type of subject.

01-03-2003, 07:03 PM	#3
fando Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 1,372	Oh, you'll hear a lot more when you get to college. If you're interested enough, you might end up doing something related to nanotechnology yourself. Nanotechnology is definitely possible and is happening. Convince yourself with Feynman's classical talk, There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom and read up on all the exciting new developments. I'm sure I don't have to point to any in particular, just read science news. The future of nanotechnology is so bright, you need to wear shades. It has the potential to bring great change to the world, both societal and technological. The only science fiction author I'm aware of who fully visuallized what is possible in a world with pervasive nanotechnology is Niel Stephenson. His work is Diamond Age. Oh, and welcome to the II forums!

01-03-2003, 07:15 PM	#4
Demosthenes Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: a speck of dirt Posts: 2,510	not to rain on you, but actually Neal wasn't the first one to consider the possibilites of a pervasive nanotechnology, the author with the honor is Kathleen Ann Goonan.

01-03-2003, 08:05 PM	#5
Arc Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you! Posts: 8	Mechutech, hm? I haven't heard that term before, I'll have to look into it. I think the lithography aspect of nanotech is pretty interesting, but it seems to me like DNA or quantum computers, if either is plausible, would be more powerful. As for college(which I can't wait to get to, my highschool is pretty sub-par), are there really any majors dealing directly with nanotechnology? I haven't heard of any like that, and I really don't know what kind of fields nanotech would specifically be under. I suppose that might be a good thing, I'm having enough trouble deciding between pursuing a major in physics or computer science, I don't need a third option distracting me even more. Maybe I'll triple-major. Coincidentally, I just ordered Diamond Age off amazon.com about a week ago, heh. Looks like a pretty good book--any other suggestions? Thanks for all this info, looks like I've got some more research to do.

01-03-2003, 10:04 PM	#6
fando Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 1,372	Honestly speaking, I say go for Applied Physics. Choose a college that has a nanotech thing going on, the field is mostly APh related with some interdisciplinary mixing. (Engineering, Biology, hardcore Physics, etc.) Computer Science tends to be of two types: the more theoretical stuff (math) and the more practical stuff (programming). You can easily learn the latter without having to do CS, and the former is of use only if you're into hardcore math. CS is not really that useful if you want to migrate to Physics related fields. However, if you start from Physics, it's easy to fall back into CS.

01-03-2003, 10:48 PM	#7
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	Applied Physics is a good choice if you have interest in nanotechnology. However, you should be aware that mainstream Nanotechnology is not at all related to Drexler's universal assemblers. Which doesn't mean that nanotechnology isn't exciting enough without SciFi dreams in it. I would also like to add that there are many nanotechnology products already on the market or close to it. Samsung has made prototypes of carbon nanotube based field emission displays, looks quite nice. But most of the stuff which is on the market is mainly application of nanotechnology to improve existing products, nothing particularly new and revolutionary. Some big changes will have to happen however if the miniaturization of integrated circuits will continue. Not only that photolithography will need to be replaced, but also novel device designs are needed to replace MOS transistors.

01-05-2003, 12:38 AM	#8
enigma555 Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 282	Just FYI, there is a blurb on nanotech memory devices in this month's "Scientific American" It's pretty interesting because they go into the problems they had to find solutions for - not just: "Here is this new device"

01-05-2003, 01:09 AM	#9
Arc Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you! Posts: 8	I've been meaning to drop my subscription to Popular Science and go for Scientific American for exactly that reason. Thanks for letting me know, though, I'll see if I can view that article off their website. And back to something in which I meant to go further in-depth: what do all of you think the implications of medical nanotechnology would be? Seems to me that it could easily serve as a cure to nearly any disease, so I'm wondering why there isn't more general public interest in the subject... And as another thread was speculating on what an economy would be like if humans made themselves immortal: well, if we accomplish that with nanotech, I imagine we'd also have those wonderful Drexler assemblers. Now what would THOSE do to the economy?

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