Freethought & Rationalism Archive

admice · 05-03-2003, 12:29 PM

Went to the farmer's market in Vancouver WA today and there was a Miss America (which was surreal enough) with a petition to Restore the Pledge (have school children able to say it again in schools, since the 9th circuit court decision). I didn't read the petition, but she had a couple dozen signatures.

Can some of you excellent writers come up with a petition about NOT keeping under God in the pledge? Then if we circulate it here, I'll do some tabling and emailing to get signatures, and submit to congress. Perhaps others here will get signatures in their areas or using their contacts?

Then perhaps we can stop this nonsense.

Anyway, if you can come up with somthing, I'll get the ball rolling.

Thanks!

trillian · 05-03-2003, 02:45 PM

I just HATE it when they misrepresent the courts ruling as if kids CANNOT say the pledge! Of course they can, in its original form- with out "under God".

If you had a petition for supporting the pledge in school in its original form the way it was written by a baptist minister in 1892- they'd probably sign that too.

Have signs that say "Restore the Pledge!!" and other patriotic slogans.

Although here you would be resorting to their same lowly tactics, it would work.

trillian

Stephen Maturin · 05-03-2003, 04:13 PM

I'm all for "restoring the Pledge." As trillian1 points out, that would simply mean getting rid of "under God," verbiage that was added to the codified version of the Pledge during a time of gibbering hysteria over godless communism. You wouldn't think so many people would cling so passionately to vestiges of McCarthyism, but they do.

A true "petition to restore the Pledge" would request that Congress delete "under God" from 4 U.S.C. sec. 4. That would make the Establishment Clause problem disappear lickity split. Drafting such a petition would not be particularly tough, but getting people to sign it is a whole 'nother bundle o' laundry.

Thalia · 05-03-2003, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trillian1
I just HATE it when they misrepresent the courts ruling as if kids CANNOT say the pledge! Of course they can, in its original form- with out "under God".

If you had a petition for supporting the pledge in school in its original form the way it was written by a baptist minister in 1892- they'd probably sign that too.

Have signs that say "Restore the Pledge!!" and other patriotic slogans.

Although here you would be resorting to their same lowly tactics, it would work.

trillian

I think you have an idea there. The less informed pro-God-in-pledge people would unknowingly sign, especially when they saw, "As originally written by the Baptist minister in 1892. And the more informed atheists would sign, too. Of course the wise proGod people would know your trick, but that's fine.

To make it even better start it off with "As you know the 9th circuit court ruled that The Pledge of Allegiance as we know it is unconstitutional in public schools because of the words, "Under God". If you feel as strongly about preserving tradition as we do, I urge you to sign the below petition to restore public school recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in its original form, as it was meant to be recited. The Baptist minister who penned these sacred words sanctifying our great country should not be tarnished. In reverence of his memory and our great country..."

you get the idea

Jewel · 05-03-2003, 05:52 PM

The pledge as originally written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy was actually:

Quote:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The change of "my flag" to "the Flag of the United States of America" happened in 1923 or 1924 and Bellamy did not exactly approve.

However, that nitpick asside, I like the idea of restoring the pledge to its pre 1954 state.

See also:
The Pledge Restoration Project website

Mike Rosoft · 05-04-2003, 04:40 AM

See also the two similar sites:
http://www.restorethepledge.org/
http://www.restorethepledge.com/

Mike Rosoft

trillian · 05-04-2003, 12:48 PM

This one (thanks to Mike above!) has an online petition which I signed. I wonder how many they have?

http://www.restorethepledge.com/

Unbeliever · 05-04-2003, 04:51 PM

I just have a simple question:

given that the pledge as it currently stands is unconstitutional; and given that Bush is sueing to keep it as it is, in its unconstitutional form; is he not, in fact, violating his oath of office, in which he has sworn (or affirmed) "...and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."?

Godless Dave · 05-05-2003, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unbeliever
I just have a simple question:

given that the pledge as it currently stands is unconstitutional; and given that Bush is sueing to keep it as it is, in its unconstitutional form; is he not, in fact, violating his oath of office, in which he has sworn (or affirmed) "...and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."?

That guy violated the constitution when he took the Oath of Office. And that was just the beginning.

admice · 05-05-2003, 12:52 PM

I KNOW the pledge prior to 54 did not include 'under God'. I also know the Newdow case is making it's way thru the courts. I just want a petition to counter the petition they will submit to congress. We need to know more about their petition, but the main goal is to not allow congress to enact legislation permitting the "God" talk. I am not a good writer and hope someone here knows of their petition and can draft a countering one. Thanks for the suggestions so far, tho.

05-03-2003, 12:29 PM	#1
admice Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: S Cal Posts: 327	petition to NOT restore pledge in schools Went to the farmer's market in Vancouver WA today and there was a Miss America (which was surreal enough) with a petition to Restore the Pledge (have school children able to say it again in schools, since the 9th circuit court decision). I didn't read the petition, but she had a couple dozen signatures. Can some of you excellent writers come up with a petition about NOT keeping under God in the pledge? Then if we circulate it here, I'll do some tabling and emailing to get signatures, and submit to congress. Perhaps others here will get signatures in their areas or using their contacts? Then perhaps we can stop this nonsense. Anyway, if you can come up with somthing, I'll get the ball rolling. Thanks!

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05-03-2003, 02:45 PM	#2
trillian Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: OC Posts: 1,620	I just HATE it when they misrepresent the courts ruling as if kids CANNOT say the pledge! Of course they can, in its original form- with out "under God". If you had a petition for supporting the pledge in school in its original form the way it was written by a baptist minister in 1892- they'd probably sign that too. Have signs that say "Restore the Pledge!!" and other patriotic slogans. Although here you would be resorting to their same lowly tactics, it would work. trillian

05-03-2003, 04:13 PM	#3
Stephen Maturin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Broomfield, Colorado, USA Posts: 1,295	I'm all for "restoring the Pledge." As trillian1 points out, that would simply mean getting rid of "under God," verbiage that was added to the codified version of the Pledge during a time of gibbering hysteria over godless communism. You wouldn't think so many people would cling so passionately to vestiges of McCarthyism, but they do. A true "petition to restore the Pledge" would request that Congress delete "under God" from 4 U.S.C. sec. 4. That would make the Establishment Clause problem disappear lickity split. Drafting such a petition would not be particularly tough, but getting people to sign it is a whole 'nother bundle o' laundry.

05-04-2003, 04:40 AM	#6
Mike Rosoft Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 965	See also the two similar sites: http://www.restorethepledge.org/ http://www.restorethepledge.com/ Mike Rosoft

05-04-2003, 12:48 PM	#7
trillian Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: OC Posts: 1,620	This one (thanks to Mike above!) has an online petition which I signed. I wonder how many they have? http://www.restorethepledge.com/

05-04-2003, 04:51 PM	#8
Unbeliever Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ca., USA Posts: 283	I just have a simple question: given that the pledge as it currently stands is unconstitutional; and given that Bush is sueing to keep it as it is, in its unconstitutional form; is he not, in fact, violating his oath of office, in which he has sworn (or affirmed) "...and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."?

05-05-2003, 12:52 PM	#10
admice Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: S Cal Posts: 327	I KNOW the pledge prior to 54 did not include 'under God'. I also know the Newdow case is making it's way thru the courts. I just want a petition to counter the petition they will submit to congress. We need to know more about their petition, but the main goal is to not allow congress to enact legislation permitting the "God" talk. I am not a good writer and hope someone here knows of their petition and can draft a countering one. Thanks for the suggestions so far, tho.

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