Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RufusAtticus · 01-30-2003, 03:42 PM

HR 27

Quote:

A RESOLUTION

Urging the Congress of the United States of America to reaffirm the history of this nation as a Judeo-Christian nation; and for other purposes.

WHEREAS, the words of the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag appear in 4 U.S.C.A. Section 4: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"; and

WHEREAS, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has recently issued an opinion holding that use of the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag in public schools is an unconstitutional infringement upon freedom of religion because of the words "under God"; and

WHEREAS, Official Code of Georgia Annotated Section 20-2-310 provides that "Each student in the public schools of this state shall be afforded the opportunity to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America during each school day..."; and

WHEREAS, history records in the words of the founders of our republic their faith and their expectation that religion would be a part of American life; and

WHEREAS, President George Washington said, "Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle"; and

WHEREAS, President John Adams wrote, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.... Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand"; and

WHEREAS, President James Madison said, "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not on the power of government...[but] upon the capacity of each and every one of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF GEORGIA that the members of this body urge the Congress of the United States of America to reaffirm the history of this nation as a Judeo-Christian nation and refuse to remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Clerk of the House of Representatives is authorized and directed to transmit an appropriate copy of this resolution to each member of the Georgia delegation to the Congress of the United States of America.

Notice that the following is missing:

WHEREAS, in the Treaty of Tripoli (1797) as signed by President John Adams and ratified by Congress states that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."

Zimyatin · 01-30-2003, 04:08 PM

This is silly and would only provide fuel to islamic extremists who characterize our "war on terror" as a new christian crusade. As an aside, isn't the James Madison quote on the 10 C's a fraud?

trunks2k · 01-30-2003, 04:34 PM

You would think that with all the shit going in the world our representatives would have something better to do besides coming up with crap like that.

Just Another Infidel · 01-30-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trunks2k
You would think that with all the shit going in the world our representatives would have something better to do besides coming up with crap like that.

Hmmmm.... if you don't have anything positive (jobs or federal contracts) to tell the voter's back home you have to come up with something.

Philosoft · 01-30-2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trunks2k
You would think that with all the shit going in the world our representatives would have something better to do besides coming up with crap like that.

Oh, come on. We're about to engage the USS Allah; we've got to make sure our God-shields� are at full strength. Wouldn't want his "veil of protection" failing at an inopportune time yet again, would we? God likes it when we take time from nation-management to make official-yet-meaningless government decrees about his stupendousness.

enemigo · 01-30-2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zimyatin
As an aside, isn't the James Madison quote on the 10 C's a fraud?

I've been trying to track some down some info about the Madison quote, and this is all I've been able to come up with so far:

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/1998/falsehistory.html

Quote:

That alleged Madison quotation has been cited frequently over the past 50 years, but never with a primary source. There's a reason for that: It is proper to state that Madison cannot be found to have said anything even vaguely similar to the words attributed to him.
David Mattern, an editor of the Madison Papers, in 1993 commented on the so-called Madison "quote." "We did not find anything in our files," he concluded, "remotely like the sentiment expressed in the extract you sent us. In addition, the idea is inconsistent with everything we know about Madison's views on religion and government, views he expressed time and again in public and private."

richard

SLD · 01-30-2003, 07:22 PM

Quote:

WHEREAS, President James Madison said, "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not on the power of government...[but] upon the capacity of each and every one of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

This is hilarious. You've got to point this fraud out to them Rufus. This is your state. I can't believe people are still putting up this bogus quote - even the Fundies who started this quote have renounced it. Give 'em hell.

SLD

RufusAtticus · 01-30-2003, 08:35 PM

I will, I just need good resources that explain it.

Toto · 01-30-2003, 09:49 PM

Phony Madison Quotations from Cliff Walker's Positive Atheism site. (contains many good links.)

This fabrication was spread by David Barton of Wallbuilders. But even he now admits that it is bogus. The story is told here :

Quote:

But to church-state separationists and historians of the post-colonial period, something about this Madison quote has never felt quite right. It seemed unlikely that the same Madison who advocated "total separation of the church from the state" and battled to disestablish the Anglican Church in Virginia would say it. The sentiment appeared to clash with his well-known advocacy of a healthy distance between religion and government.

A few years ago, with the quote popping up increasingly in the mass media (including Rush Limbaugh's daily radio show), Robert S. Alley, professor emeritus at the University of Richmond and author of James Madison on Religious Liberty, undertook a dogged effort to track it down. Enlisting the help of the editors of The Papers of James Madison at the University of Virginia, Alley scoured reams of documents, books and writings. After coming up empty-handed, the Madison scholar concluded that the quote was probably fictional.

Now the major purveyor of the quote, Texas-based Religious Right propagandist David Barton, has admitted it's bogus. Last year Barton's group, WallBuilders' issued a one-page document titled "Questionable Quotes," a list of 12 statements allegedly uttered by Founding Fathers and other prominent historical figures, that are now considered to be suspect or outright false. Madison's alleged comment about the Ten Commandments is number four on the list and is flatly declared by Barton to be "false." (See [below] for a full list of the bogus quotes.)

Advocates of separation of church and state were left breathless over Barton's audacity. For nearly 10 years, the Texas propagandist has traveled the country, putting on programs about America's alleged "Christian heritage" at fundamentalist churches and other venues. During these events, Barton argued that the separation of church and state is a myth foisted on the country by the Supreme Court 50 years ago. The United States, he insisted, was founded by Christians and was intended to be a fundamentalist-style "Christian nation."

What was Barton's proof for these claims? Many of the quotations he now admits are groundless! At least nine of the 12 were included in Barton's 1989 book, The Myth of Separation, and appeared in the video version, "America's Godly Heritage." Barton was so enamored of one quote supposedly uttered by Benjamin Franklin ("Whosoever shall introduce into the public affairs the principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world.") that it was included on a biographical sketch WallBuilders distributes about Barton, saying it "fully sums up what David believes and teachers." Barton now admits the quote is "questionable" and recommends people don't use it.

Javaman · 01-31-2003, 03:18 AM

After reading Cliff's list of John Adam's quotes , I'm not sure that (if the quote is accurate) President Adams wasn't just referring to the calming effect it (religion) has on the masses... those that need the fear of retribution from a deity to keep them from doing evil.

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01-30-2003, 04:08 PM	#2
Zimyatin Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 308	This is silly and would only provide fuel to islamic extremists who characterize our "war on terror" as a new christian crusade. As an aside, isn't the James Madison quote on the 10 C's a fraud?

01-30-2003, 04:34 PM	#3
trunks2k Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 6,997	You would think that with all the shit going in the world our representatives would have something better to do besides coming up with crap like that.

01-30-2003, 08:35 PM	#8
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	I will, I just need good resources that explain it.

01-31-2003, 03:18 AM	#10
Javaman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,708	After reading Cliff's list of John Adam's quotes , I'm not sure that (if the quote is accurate) President Adams wasn't just referring to the calming effect it (religion) has on the masses... those that need the fear of retribution from a deity to keep them from doing evil.

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