Magus55

You should offer your care to her, and if she doesn't want it thats her choice. You can't force anyone to do anything. One of the most important things God taught - we all have a choice - and God will never force you to make it - however the consequences of not accepting that choice are dire ( in your case - leaving your MIL to die because she didn't accept your offer for care).

We are all dying because of our sin. God offered his love and care, to save us from death through His Son Jesus Christ. But he doesn't force that love or care on us. He offered it, and its up to us to accept it. If we don't, He told us what would happen. We would be left to die because we chose to.

Magus55

DD -

It doesn't take away free will. They had the free will to choose to be saved or go to hell. By no choice but going to Hell, i meant - if they choose to reject God, there is no other option. Its Black or White - Heaven or Hell, there is no inbetween.

You can't possibly say you would forgive everyone because you aren't God - how can you possibly assume you can do that? God can forgive everyone - He is so forgiving, that crimes worthy of eternal death can be forgiven by Him - but only if you seek forgiveness If you don't accept His forgiveness, He can't forgive you because you don't want it - and He values your choice.

God does judge everyone equally - from Mother Theresa to Hitler - all are held to the same judgement. God is the most fair and equal judge in existence - its called pure righteous judgement - something we can't understand because it doesn't exist on Earth. Humans don't judge fairly - God does.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" applies to humans. How can you judge someone when you are no better than them? We all fall short of the glory of God - so you judging another human is being a hypocrite - thats what that verse means. God has no equal - He is perfect and sets the standard by which to Judge - therefore God doesn't have to be judged, because who is gonna judge HIM that is Judgement? Jesus was God, therefore the Almighty, Righteous Judge - doesn't have to judge himself because He is perfect. Humans aren't.

Darth Dane

if they choose to reject God, there is no other option. Its Black or White - Heaven or Hell, there is no inbetween.

True, but would you not offer forgiveness even though they have made a choice. Maybe they would reconsider?
I, DD, would stand at the edge of heaven and hell, and ask everyone in Hell if they wanted forgiveness. And I would keep on asking until no more was in hell, I shall return forever to ask, no one will not be forgiven 7 times 7.

Life in pleasure is nothing when others are in pain. If God was so loving he would make sure everyone was in heaven, no love is complete if there is no Love for everyone, regardless of place(heaven-hell) regardless of colour, regardless of race.

If God is truly 100 % Love, then I assume there is Love for those in Hell. If hell isn't loved and forgiven by God, how can it be 100%?

You can't possibly say you would forgive everyone because you aren't God - how can you possibly assume you can do that?

How can you assume you can't?

Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. John 20:23

I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

So happiness is also gained when a sinner returns and there is more happiness, would God give up on humans?

Why do you question thus in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven', or to say 'Rise, take up your pallet and walk'? Mark 2:8-9

He was talking to humans here. Humans can forgive.

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses neither will your father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15

So everyone who is in heaven is because some human have not forgiven their sins. If humans doesn't forgive the sins of others, how can they be in heaven?



God can forgive everyone - He is so forgiving, that crimes worthy of eternal death can be forgiven by Him - but only if you seek forgiveness If you don't accept His forgiveness, He can't forgive you because you don't want it - and He values your choice.

Is there a timelimit? how long do I have to decide?

Humans don't judge fairly - God does.

interesting.



DD - Love Spliff

long winded fool

How can forced love be synonymous to true love? It is attatchment. It is self love. Because I couldn't sleep at night otherwise, my happiness outweighs the happiness of my loved one. If I really love her, I'll do everything I can to protect her ultimate happiness, (though that sometimes means allowing her to learn tough, unhappy lessons, ensuring better decisions in the future on her part.) I won't force her to love me, (even if I could.) The coddling instinct and the instinct to protect others from pain is rooted in personal emotional attatchment. Sometimes love hurts. Allowing my loved one to reap the painful and unhappy consequences of his or her actions is often more loving than shielding him or her from said consequences. Shouting and scolding as teaching tools are no match for experiencing the logical consequences of a given act. Love must always include reason, even if it is not entirely a reasoning act.

And the Biblical interpretation of Hell is metaphorical, as is just about everything else. Once the nerves die, there is no physical pain. Hell would obviously be described by Christians as a place of "eternal torment" if Hell is a place away from God. Unless hell is an actual physical place located somewhere in the universe, and unless our physical bodies are reincarnated there along with our souls, "lake of fire" and "eternal torment" must be physical symbols for spiritual things. Since Heaven is symbolically described in physical terms, it is logical to presume that Hell would be too. Comparing the spiritual nature of Heaven (with God) to the spiritual nature of Hell (without God) in the spiritual sense might be like comparing eternal bliss with eternal torture in the physical sense, but this doesn't mean that either can exist outside of the body. I interpret the passages relating to the horrors of Hell to simply be saying "You're stupid to turn away from God. Being with Him is so much better than being without Him. But God will allow you to do so if you wish."

HelenM

long winded fool, please read these comments I posted to you yesterday and respond. If the person in hell (Hades) is saying he is in torment then surely that is different from Christians metaphorically saying it is 'torment' to be away from God's presence.

Rhea

Darth Dane and Long Winded...

Interesting. Interesting what you say that children should abandon their elderly parents to rot in their own swill and to crush children with their bumpers if that's what makes them happy.

Sick. Twisted. But intertesting.

It makes one think that prisons are unnecessary, no? Drunk driving is quite innocuous, since God will shower Love on the victims anyway.

And so when your children say, "I don't want to go to church" I imagine you'll just hire a babysitter for them so they can stay home while you go.


For the record, I don't have any problem with end of life assisted suicide. But I do have a problem with criminal negligence. And I do have an affection for responsibility. If she wants to die, that's one thing. If she is just deluded into thinking she's actually "doing just fine" that's something else altogether.

I can't believe the way you people think.

I'm really sitting here astonished at the idea that the death of bystanders is okay with you. That is really beyond me. Just astonishing.

Pascal's Wager takes on a whole new meaning, does it not?
What have I "got to lose"? My humanity. My very sanity.

I just can't believe the way you people think.

long winded fool

Luke 16:19-31. I read this as a parable. I don't take this any more literally than any of Jesus' other parables. The moral is: If you only know to seek happiness in the material, you will never know happiness in the spiritual. The smallest drop of spiritual happiness makes material "happiness" seem like agony. The best happiness we get out of our love for our possessions is equal to the torment of Hell. This is why Jesus tells the rich ruler to give away everything he owns. It's not his riches that damn him. It's his attachment to his riches. His love for his riches. Anyone who's ever loved a possession and then fallen in love with a human knows that love for a material thing cannot substitute or even compare to love for a person. Material love might be described as "hollow" or "missing something." Multiply this ad infinitum and you have a comparison to divine love. If "hollow" and "missing something" are descriptive of the absence of human love, "lake of eternal fiery torment" is not even harsh enough to describe the absence of divine love. Yet, if a person decides he loves his car more than you, and you truly love him, in the end you will leave him with what he wants, where he wants to be. It is unfortunate, but it is not something to lament over because he is exactly where he desires to be, and if you love him as much as you love yourself, you'll let him go. If you have a particularly high opinion of yourself, you might even say that he's throwing a wonderful life of happiness and bliss away for an empty, meaningless relationship with a hunk of metal, but in the end, it's still his choice. Trying to convince him otherwise before he leaves is loving. Bemoaning his absence after the fact is not. There's nothing for you to be unhappy about. He is following his path in the way he desires to follow it. In fact, any unhappiness would come from loving your own personal desire for his companionship more than him. If you really loved him exactly as much as you loved yourself, you couldn't be unhappy for him. You're both where you want to be. Merely multiplying the comparative distance (empty and hollow to complete and fulfilled vs. eternal 'torment' to eternal 'bliss') does nothing to the comparison. If those in Heaven truly love those in Hell as they love themselves, they cannot mourn their fate.

Magus55

Until you take your last breath. Once your dead - your fate is sealed. Since you could die tomorrow, you shouldn't wait around pondering God's existence and whether its true or not. You are wasting your time, and you will have no one to blame but yourself if you die before you accept Jesus as your savior.

Sabine Grant

Sorry to hear about her situation Rhea and yours also. I am not sure where you live and if in the US but home health care is available in some of those situations. If she wants to remain in her own home, the local elderly services may be able to help provide for home care. I have a few patients who choose to remain in their homes rather than be with their relatives or land in a nursing home. By the way this not presented as a christian alternative but as a realistic suggestion based on my experience.

Rousseau_CHN

Should you force? Of course not, you cannot force an adult into anything. But you could ask her to live with you.

Force her? Like what kind of a question is that. It seems so obvious enough that it is wrong to use force especially on someone who is already worn down by age.

How would it look like to you or to any decent man, to see your mother being manhandled out of the house.

manhandled? why yes...what else does force mean!

You Christian make me sick with your "kindness and compassion."

Save your "compassion" to people who really needs it...like yourself.

Don't worry about your mom dying of starvation. She has put up with you for too long that she could handle this little discomfort.

Force? Force your **#4@^!#$