River

I am beginning to feel that Magus55 is actually ZOROASTRIAN. I mean he does talk a Great deal about Good and Evil , Light and Dark. Not to mention that another name for Zoroastrians is the word Magians....(as well as Parsees)....And the Quranic word Zoroastrian is Pronounced Magues or Majus....Man...It all makes sense now

B. H. Manners

<<<<The 144,000 are the Jews (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes) that are to witness to the Earth during the Tribulation - they are protected by God.>>>>>

Rev. 7:4-8: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . Judah . . . Reuben . . . Gad . . . Asher . . . Naphtali . . . Manasseh . . . Simeon . . . Levi . . . Issachar . . . Zebulun . . . Joseph . . . Benjamin.” (These cannot be the tribes of natural Israel because there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16.)

--------->How do you know this about Joseph? As far as you know the writer of Revelation mistook the name of one of the tribes as being Joseph. Better yet, take a look at Deut 27:12-13. There was a tribe of Mannasseh too, but I'll let you do your homework and find it.

Since the list specifically says it is of the 12 tribes of Israel, I see no reason why Levi should not be there regardless of how they were considered servants in the past. They were a tribe were they not in Israel? Is not the Revelator discussing who is saved among the "12" tribes of Israel?

"""Rom. 2:28,_29: “He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.”""""'


-------> All right, that is a nice verse you qouted. However, the verse mentioned in Revelation mentions the SAVED from the 12 tribes of Israel. they are the parts of Israel that are spiritually Israel and not Israel by birth alone.

Gal. 3:26-29: “You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. ._._. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is
neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.”


------->Good for you again! You qouted another verse about who is on god's good list. Look at Revelation 7:9-10 and you will see that the righteous Gentiles are seen too. The Revelator focused on Israel first in verse 5-8 then presents the saved among the Gentiles. All the verse from Galatians is saying is that it doesn't matter what your ethnic or sexual status is as long as you belong to Jesus.

Arken

Well at least it would mean he was always well-bathed...

conkermaniac

Je ne comprends pas...are these 144,000 people the only ones going to heaven, according to the Bible?

j-ogenes

I don't think many christians would say they believe that literally 144,000 are going to Heaven. In some cases in the Bible a day is meant to symbolize a year (at least that's some peoples' interpretation) and so I think somehow this number is meant as some vague metaphor for some other number...
anyway, as for the question of the "new Earth," the way I've seen it explained is
1. at the second coming of Christ all the righteous who are living go up to Heaven for a thousand years.
2. then Heaven comes down to Earth and the righteous dead are resurrected and live in this "new Earth" after it has been cleansed by the fire that kills all the wicked (Hell).
This is the Seventh-Day Adventist version.

sodium

After a somewhat brief reading, here's my opinion of what it says.

Humanity seems to be divided into a few main groups.

1) 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel who are given a special seal on their heads. Possibly these are righteous Jews from among those alive at the opening of the sixth seal. (Rev 7:4)
2) The white robe wearers, who have survived until the sixth seal, and whose robes have been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb. I think these are obviously those Christians who have survived to that point. (Rev 7:9)
3) The throne sitters, who are Christian martyrs. (Rev 20:4)
4) Everyone else.

The first group seems destined to live in a new Jerusalem (Rev 21:12). The second serve in God's throne room (Rev 7:15). The third become priests of God and Christ (Rev 20:6). The fourth are judged by what they did during life (Rev 20:12 also Rev 22:15). Those who make the cut inhabit the new Earth (but not necessarily the new Jerusalem). Those who are rejected are thrown into "the lake of fire." It isn't clear whether this means eternal torture or annihilation, although torture is specified for the devil, the beast and the false prophet.

I have a feeling there are going to be major objections to this assessment. Personally, I'm not interested in any analysis that assumes that Revelations has to be harmonized with the rest of the New Testament, or with Christian doctrine in general. So, I don't intend to participate in that debate.

EstherRose

Well I'm not a Messianic Jew. In fact, I hated Jews for many years until I became born again Christian. Then I recognized God's love for them and His plan of salvation that includes Jews and those who aren't Jews. It was a difficult thing to realize how wrong I had been.

I also believe the 144,000 are Jews who believe in Jesus Christ.

(Sorry Magus, I was one of the lost for a long time. Please don't take that I hated Jews thing personally. And please note that I no longer hate Jews.)

conkermaniac

OK, thanks. I kinda get it now.

Just another question...what happens to the people who die BEFORE the second coming of Christ. Does this 144,000 apply to them too?

Magus55

You mean those who die during the Tribulation before Jesus sets foot on the Mount of Olives again? They are lost souls - their second and last chance to accept Christ passed them by. The 144,000 Jews are those Jews that accepted Christ (some of them) during the Tribulation (after the Rapture). Their purpose is to spread the message of Christ throughout the world during the Tribulation - basically the opposing "Good" force against the Antichrist and his army.

conkermaniac

Magus, I'm talking about the average Christians who are dying today. Are they going to heaven? Or have I misunderstood you? After reading your post, it soudns like you mean that 144,000 lucky people who changed their minds during the Tribulation will have the chance to go to heaven?