Polar Bear

I have a lot of questions about Satan so I'll just post them all here in the hopes that a Christian, atheist or someone else can answer them.

1. When God created the angels, did he know that Lucifer (Satan) would rebel? If so, why did he let it happen? Free will?

2. Is Satan the cause of all evil in the world?

3. Do Satan and God work together, or are they implacable enemies? That may seem like a silly question, but it seems like some people think of Satan as doing a job for God: punishing sinners and running Hell. If Satan was truly an enemy of God, why would he help God out by punishing God's enemies?

4. Is Hell a place where Satan and his demons are punished, or is it a realm in which they rule?

5. Who made Hell and why?

6. If Satan is an eternal adversary, and God is omniscient and omnipotent, wouldn't Satan be aware of the futility of opposition? Why would Satan seek to struggle against an unbeatable foe?

Polar Bear

um, sorry about the duplicate posts, everyone ... my connection was acting funny.

The Other Jamie

All I can tell you is that he plays for the Buffalo Sabres.


JamieB

jess

Go Satan!

It is sooo funny to hear announcers call him that...

and it goes so well with the new 'evil goat lord' logo on the jerseys...



of course, this is also the town where I once saw a huge black limo with red detailing and black tinted windows... with the plate: HMS 666...

hmmmm


[ December 18, 2002: Message edited by: jess ]

[ December 18, 2002: Message edited by: jess ]</p>

CX

I recently began reading a book by Dr. Elaine Pagels (author of "The Gnostic Gospels") called "The Origin of Satan". So far it's quite compelling. I recommend picking up a copy.

MrDarwin

You're not the only one who's confused about Satan. Most Christians seem to be confused about Satan.

This question comes up periodically. In a nutshell, can an omniscient creator do anything that has unintended consequences? Case in point: the creation of Satan.

If omniscient as Christians claim, God should have known everything Satan would do, including rebel, even before he/she/it created Satan. So... does that mean God wanted Satan to rebel? Because Satan's character was also created by God, and either God made a mistake, or God fully intended Satan to do everything Satan ended up doing--because to do anything otherwise, Satan would have had to have been created a little bit differently by God in the first place.

Most Christians are loathe to admit, this, but by their own theology God is the cause of all evil in the world, because God was the creator of everything, God knows everything that will ever happen, and nothing can happen without God allowing it to happen.

Depends on who you talk to; Christian theology is confused and often contradictory on all these points. But all Christian sects seem to agree that God is the creator of everything, and is omniscient, so I prefer to keep coming back to the original question, which is whether Satan's rebellion was a flaw that God didn't anticipate, or was a necessary plot device that God programmed into Satan.

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

Priapus

I wanted to jump in on this conversation just to provide the Jehovah's Witness stance on Satan. I really think it is one of the more reasonable approaches to a few of these issues and doesn't get voiced very often.

God has foreknowledge but free will is truly free, so we change the future as we make our decisions. Satan brought up the issue of God's universal sovereignty challenging he didn't have the right to rule.

Yes, but in a roundabout way. Since Satan challenged God and humans chose to follow Satan God has removed himself from the picture for the most part and is allowing humans to rule themselves. This I’m assuming also accounts for the sun going supernova and poison monkeys abducting your children. God is no longer there to take care of us. The point he is making is that we need him.

The JW's don't believe in hellfire torment because it is never directly mentioned in the bible. Several times there are references made to 'being in hell' but they believe the term hell is interchangeable with Sheol, which simply means the common grave. So the idea is that when someone is in hell they are just dead. In Revelation when it says sheol will be pitched into the lake of fire they take that to mean the destruction of death for all humans (not animals). So you can see using the theology above, Satan doesn't punish anyone, all he really does is try to lead them away from God. That’s what hell is; it is separation from God in death since you would no longer have the life God gave to you.

Neither, as discussed above its just death.

No one made a physical "Hell" but hell was brought into existence at the fall of man; "so death and sickness entered them all".

Now that’s a good question even for JW's but I guess they would answer something like this: Satan has already sealed his fate and knows he has a limited time left to exist, so he is trying to take as many people (and angels) with him to put across the idea that self-rule is desirable above rule by God. They could use the story of Job to illustrate this and point out that Satan's ultimate goal is to show that no one will serve God out of love; they will only serve him because they are forced into it. Satan is there to allow us a choice, so perhaps you could take the view that God wanted to screw around with us and did make Satan with the foreknowledge he would cause this much pain just so God could show us how destructive self-rule was as opposed to his rule.

Radcliffe Emerson

YES! Someone other than me played the Buffalo Sabres card!

I've been wanting to see Satan traded to the New Jersey Devils now for a long time!!!!

It's a match made in, well, hell I guess!

Here's my reply to the question about Satan: he doesn't exist.

Polar Bear

Yeah, yeah, I don't think he exists either. I just want to hear some ideas on how this mess can be explained.

Jamie_L

Satan is God's right-hand man. His lackey. His enforcer.

His first job was to go down into Eden and get those kids to eat the fruit. Otherwise, God would never have been able to introduce all the evil into the world that he needs in order to achieve "the greater good". See also entry on "Free Will (TM)".

Satan and God hang out together to play poker and other betting games. See the entry on "Job".

Satan is credited with the assist for bringing about the salvation of all mankind. You see, God needed Christ to be crucified. Once again, it was Satan who stepped up to the plate and possessed Judas not once, but TWICE to ensure the big guy would get betrayed and strung up on that cross. Where would we be if that last supper had been one of many more to come? Doomed for all eternity, that's where.

Three cheers for Satan!

Jamie

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Jamie_L ]</p>