post-it

Since I believe that man was created by a creator, then I can justify that we were created for a purpose. Since we don't know what that purpose is, it allows us large latitude for deciding what should be in the best interest of man to survive, that includes murder being wrong.

How do you know that murder is objectivily wrong?

Shadowy Man

But what if our purpose is to murder each other as viciously as possible? You said you don't know what the purpose is, so maybe that's it. Then it is immoral not to murder.

The same way you do, but without the creator god.

Someone else here put it really well when they said that morality is the recognition of the self in others. I can certainly think it out logically why murder is objectively wrong, but in addition I do feel an emotional aspect to it, a sense that it is wrong. I believe that is do to social conditioning on the part of my parents and the society in which I live. I think many objective standards have arisen through this process. Some things have more latitude in their "objectivity" but have developed in the same manner; such as what I think is pleasing to the eyes or to the ears.

I don't know the full psychology behind why we as a species developed a sense of morality, but I do think that early religions incorporated that into their belief system, and suggested, since they couldn't think of their origin, that they must have been delivered from on high. There are other possibilities, such as those of Plato, who believed that there existed a realm of perfect ideas (or something like that, I'm a little rusty on my Plato) and we just sort of "remembered" these ideas. These things could exist without a creator god.

My personal answer is that I don't know where they came from, but I'm fine with that. I understand that I have limitations in my knowledge but I think it is sloppy thinking to attribute those things I don't understand to something that is un-understandable, such as the various gods dreamt up by the various religions that have come and gone over mankind's history.

What I have seen, through my training, is that there is a way of thinking that does lead to many, many answers and provides a detailed and reliable model of the way that the universe appears to work. It's been proven to me to be so successful that I tend to use that as the basis of my thinking, and new ideas and thoughts are put to the test to see if they can be reconciliated with those things that I do know are true, or as true as I'll ever know them to be.

99Percent

God also created all the other animals, right? Then why do we kill animals for food? How do we know that these animal's purpose is simply for man's use? Wouldn't these animals have a Godly purpose of their own? What about all the other animals that we don't even interact with? How do they relate to man's purpose and existence?Simple, and as I said, a man is more valuable for me and my purpose, alive than any other animal or rock, because of his ability to think of, create and trade human values. Unless of course this man chooses to be immoral himself by say becoming a murderer. No need for gods or fear of an imaginary hell.

Theli

Good, you understood a vital rule of morality. There is no objective one, I'm almost proud.
Anyway... subjective is not the same thing as wrong. If you think red is a beautiful color, just because you cannot prove it's beauty in your eyes doesn't make it wrong.
But on another note, you missed the point with my "important" note.

Show me how objective morality works.
If your morality is based on someone's (something's) saying, then it is no more objective than human laws.
And why does religious or christian morality (that is suposed to be objective and set) change with the rest of society?
And weither or not we are just effects in the universe is open for interpretation, it depends on your perspective.