SilentPoet

Hello I recently joined this site, but I'm not new to debating on this type of format. I've debated alot more on www.youdebate.com which is also powered by vbulletin.....
Hey to all

The sacrafice of Jesus is something which Christians say cleansed humanity of sin and gave forgivness.
The break down
Jesus lived a fair life performing "miracles" and was for a large time highly respect in Roman scociety. It came to the point where he had many followers and people who "beleived in him" or beleived in his actions and thoughts.
He was then persecuted by Roman officals and hung on a cross to die. Which he did.
As the bible says he rose from his grave three days later and was seen by people.
He then went to heaven and prophecy says he will return again.

Now in modern day in the Christian theology you must beleive that Jesus died for you on the cross to enter "the gates" of Heaven.
This sacrafice was supposedly to forgive ALL of humanities sins for those who seek repetance.
Is this kind of "sacrafice" really such a big one. Sure dieing on a cross is a bad way to die but is that kind of sarcrafice worth all the sins of humanity? I think not.
Also keep in mind that after he was hung and was dead for three days he then went to spend eternity in heaven.
Once again I ask you what kind of sacrafice is this?

Lohan

I was watching Spike Lee's "25th Hour" today, and you remind me of a point in the movie where Edward Norton's character, Montgomery Brogan, who is facing 7 years in prison on drug charges starts ranting about everything he sees as unfair or ridiculous in his life.

At one point, he gets to the Catholic Church, and then moves on to Jesus, saying (hope you don't mind swearing, and this is paraphrased) "Fuck J.C. You think you got it tough. All you got was a day on the cross and a weekend in hell, and then a million hallelujahs from the legions of angels for eternity."

Although, I don't really think this is a topic for Non-Abrahamic Religions. Moderator care to move this so it'll get some more play?

Grizzly

Agreed. This thread will get much more air time in General Religious Discussions. Off it goes....

pariah

I personally don't see the big deal in dying...I mean christ in half the movies I have seen someone willingly dies for a different cause. Maybe sending himself to hell eternally to forgive us would mean something, but just dying is no big deal. Especially because he gets to go and live in heaven afterwards anyway.

Not only that, but why did he need to die? God is omnipotent...why would it be necessary to die in the first place? He doesn't have to follow any rules...

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Welcome, Silent Poet.

Yeah, I think Jesus' 'sacrifice' was not. As you mentioned, the fellow came to Earth for a very small fraction of his existence, experience what must be a pin-prick for an infinent entity, and spent a weekend in hell--only to return to eternal bliss. What kind of sacrifice is that when you end up in a place of eternal happiness? It would have been a much greater sacrifice if Jesus had stayed dead or stayed in hell.

Granting that it was a sacrifice, I think that whether or not it was sufficient to pay for man's sins depends on the big guy himself. A benevolent deity would not require any sacrifice or repayment in order to forgive sins. He should be able to do it without requiring somebody to suffer. A monster of a deity would require something to be punished before he forgives somebody. The severity of the punishment would depend on how horrible the deity was. Of course one would wonder why they would want to be forgiven by such an awful being, but that's a different issue.

-Nick

missus_gumby

I think a fourth option is needed in the poll:

...that's the one I would vote for.

Martin

I ate Pascal's Wafer

LOL!!! :notworthy

That would make a nice addition to this poll.

-Nick

SilentPoet

Wow... So many responses in one day at the website I am use to it would take 2 - 3 days to get that much activity on a thread. Anyways back to the topic.

Gumby,

This thread is aimed at those who accept atleast some form of a Jesus story to be true or atleast even if they don't... This presents the question as if it was.

As for the rests of the posts I certainly agree with the expansions on what I am saying are presented here.

The_Unknown_Banana

Another way to look at it of course, is that this is supposedly God on earth, who allowed sinful humanity to kill him in a rather painful way. So while there may be movies, or even real situations where the 'hero' dies in an much more spectacular way, I don't think this is the point. In saying that, I never really got the whole point myself. Like, why?

SilentPoet

Banana,

If Jesus were to be man in flesh why would Jesus refer to "the father" so much? Why while on the cross would he ask "Why houst thou forsaken me"? (Asking god)
Just a point to consider...
Although I'm not a "man of the scriptures" and unfit to debate through them although I can always try