Mazer9

As a former Christian from a family deeply-rooted in the baptist denomination, I recall church service being more segregated than anything else in my normal active life. If the Christian religion's true goal is to lead followers to Christ, why does it do so in such a segregated way? Wouldn't Christians be compelled--against normal societal trends--to flock amongst one another? Do Christians believe in Black and White Heaven, where they don't really have to deal with one another? This among with many other observances--as well as common sense knowledge--led to my atheism.

It just seems to me that if God and religion were more than a societal construct it would withstand societal and natural trends. I hope that there are some theist out there who can explain away what seems to me to be painfully obvious.

[ December 05, 2002: Message edited by: Mazer9 ]</p>

B. H. Manners

I am going to move this to General Religious Discussions.

Amie

Hi Mazer9

In what ways?

can you elaborate what you mean by segregated ways? are you talking about the differences in denominations?

well everyone is different so naturally all Christians will have their own ideas, and perceptions of their faith...

did you become an atheist primarily because you felt a sense of segregation within your church?
I'm a theist and I have common sense...

How does religion "not" withstand societal trends?

Amie~

Infinity Lover

Hi Amie.
I think the different religions of the world, very much lean on the cultures they spawned from. Judeo-Christianity being the product of northern Africa, and Hinduism and Budhism having more of an Asian flavour. It's like you said yourself; if you had grown up in some African tribe, chances are you would've ended up worshiping some elephant.

Shake

Amie, I think you'd do better to take Mazer's post as a whole rather than responding line-by-line. That is not only confusing to read, but you've lost the meaning of the original post.

Mazer, as a former church-goer myself, I know what you're talking about. I think there was only one or two black families in the church I used to attend (Lutheran). Now nobody was hostile towards them that I noticed, but why there wasn't more diversity was a bit of a puzzle to me at the time. I think like Infinity Lover was trying to say, that religion is often very much tied to culture and it's clear that on the whole there are different cultures between the races or even people of different nationalities. I mean, when I said Lutheran above, many folks will assume I'm of western European or Scandinavian descent (I'm half German, fwiw). Whereas if I had said Catholic some might have assumed I had a Latin or south European background. Ya see?

Many blacks are some flavor of Baptist ... they seem to be very much involved in the Southern Baptists. It was interesting to see, when I was stationed in SC, more mention of "black churches" and not so much of what denomination they were. Now I don't know how much of this arose from the forced segregation dating back hundreds of years, or to what extent it's a community trying to preserve it's own culture and identity. But these are some issues you should take into consideration here.

I'll be interested to see others' comments on this thread.

Infinity Lover

Religion and cultural division in the Netherlands.

In Holland, you'll find that the northern part is predominantly reformed, while Roman Catholisism has a stronger foothold in the southern half of the country. And it's in the bigger cities in the mid-west where you'd find the strongest manifestations of Islam. Jewish influences are probably strongest in the captiol of Amsterdam. One of the famous neighborhoods there is called "de Jordaan", and Amsterdam-slang has a lot of Jiddish in it. (mazzel, gabber, gozer, mesjogge, and then there's the repetoire of 'Bram & Moos' jokes)

Stephen T-B

Religions both shape cultures and are shaped by cultures; it is a kind of circularity, a continuous belt, so attempting to define where the process began is impossible.
I think that diviners, socerers, astrologers and priests have been influential in human societies from a very early stage: they will have taken their cues from what was expected of them, and because of their status and prestige, will in turn have exerted an influence upon the communities which they served, or ruled.
This pattern has continued down to the present day.
Consider the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa at the time of Apartheid: it supported the policy, finding Biblical justifications and thus providing the white, church-going society with Divine validation for its prejudices.
By contrast, the Roman Catholic Church as practised in South American countries was remarkably inclusive of all races and no doubt contributed to the multi-racial cultures which are found there (I’m thinking particularly of Brazil.)
Consider slavery: the Church played an active role in enslaving Africans (Popes kept slaves, as did cardinals and even priests) and collaborated, morally, with the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Then along came Wilberforce, a Christian, who put an end to it with the help of church leaders whom he had convinced of its wickedness; and the denominations to which they belonged are still influential in efforts to end slavery where still it exists.
Thus religions can be humane and inhumane, just and unjust, racist and non-racist, as indeed are the societies in which they exist.

Amie

I haven't taken away from the meaning of Mazer's post at all. I read it in its entirety and then asked questions...

luvluv

It should be kept in mind that Christians do not always behave in a Christian fashion. One does not automatically become perfect on conversion. It is possible to disobey God. It is possible for God to tell a group of people to work together and for them to refuse. That doesn't negate the validity of their religion. Just because God has demonstrated something to be virtuous does not mean that everyone who follows God will automatically conform to it. People can decide how much they will allow God to affect their everyday lives. God won't knock them over and make them join the Rainbow Coalition if they steadfastly refuse to do it. But that doesn't mean God doesn't exist, or anything close to it.

cricket

I'd be surprised to find out my xtian friends think at all about this. They don't think, they don't wonder... no matter how analytical they are about other matters, they never are, about their religious beliefs.