Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bible Humper · 08-20-2002, 12:39 PM

Mark 16:17-18: "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover"

...the last words of Jesus on Earth.

Quote:

Pentecostals believe in exorcisms, speaking in new tongues, and laying hands on the sick; so why not taking up serpents? To an illiterate Tennessee preacher named George W. ("Little George") Hensley, it seemed inconsistent. So when he preached on the Mark passage one Sunday in 1910, he concluded by taking a large rattlesnake out of a box with his bare hands. He handled it for several minutes, then ordered his congregation to handle it too or else be "doomed to eternal hell."

The rituals of this denomination include:

Speaking in tongues

Exorcism

Faith healing - related refusal of medical attention, and all medicine is taboo

Thrashing around in physical ecstasy

No jewelry, bands, watches, or hair products

Strict biblical dress code

No tobacco, alcohol, drugs or even caffeine

Wearing glasses banned

Women may not cut their hair

Men must keep hair short, facial hair banned.

"Holy kiss" Kiss other followers on the lips as greeting. This is usually done only to same sex members of the church

"We ought to obey God rather than man" - disdain for the law.

Ritual drinking of strychnine(nasty poison)

Running a blow-torch up and down arms - biblical interpretation of "handling fire"

Putting fingers into electrical sockets during ecstasy.

Walking on live scorpions and poisonous snakes

The handling of deady poisonous snakes during ritual....

Quote:

In the early days of the movement, the bitten were shunned?the person was considered to be "in sin" or lacked sufficient faith. Today most adherents believe even the devout will be bitten occasionally.

Believers say God allows snake bites, (1) to punish sins in daily life, (2) to prove the snakes have not been tampered with and are still quite deadly, (3) to try the faith of the victim and other worshipers, and (4) to show God's healing power.

But one of the most common reasons given is that the handler did not have the "anointing." Snakes must only be handled when a believer is completely under the power of the Holy Ghost: an experience marked by speaking in tongues and physical frenzy. Many receivers of this anointing have no recollection of the experience or even of handling the serpents.

The founder of the movement lived into his seventy-fifth year. On July 24, 1955, Hensley was bitten again. Like so many times before, he refused medical treatment. But by the following morning, he was dead. Officials, showing a complete misunderstanding of Hensley's faith, listed his death as suicide.

Sign followers, like Pentecostals, believe in the three stages, "salvation, sanctification and the baptism of the Holy Ghost." The steps occur when one realizes first "salvation from sin," then sanctification in the form "instantaneous...eradication of one's sinful nature," and finally the baptism of the Holy Ghost as manifest in the nine spiritual gifts.

The nine spiritual gifts are specified in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10: "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; To another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; another prophesy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues"

<a href="http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/062996/062996PorterLR.jpg" target="_blank">http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/062996/062996PorterLR.jpg</a>

<a href="http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/062996/062996NixLR.jpg" target="_blank">http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/062996/062996NixLR.jpg</a>

<a href="http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/062996/062996MccormicLR.jpg" target="_blank">http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/062996/062996MccormicLR.jpg</a>

If anyone can find fundies that top these yokels for pure christian madness, please do...

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]</p>

Mageth · 08-20-2002, 12:45 PM

Boy, Steve Irwin could be a god in that cult!

simian · 08-20-2002, 12:49 PM

This is the brand of Christianity Ashcroft embrases? I was much happier when I did not know the details.

Does anybody else find these two items to be odd?

"No tobacco, alcohol, drugs or even caffeine"

"Ritual drinking of strichnine(nasty poison)"

Why drink a poison during church services, the refuse far less nasty poisons?

Simian

Bible Humper · 08-20-2002, 12:55 PM

"Mainstream" Pentecostals reject the snake handling aspect, strychnine drinking, and the blow-torch up and down the arms though.

Edit: wrote "strichnine instead of "strychnine"

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ] <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]</p>

Coragyps · 08-20-2002, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Strict biblical dress code

Well... maybe not exactly! I seriously doubt that Brother Billy Bob would last very long if he came to meetin' in a toga, or whatever the 40 AD Greek or Hebrew equivalent was called. I once knew a very nice guy, a coworker, who was Pentecostal Holiness (no snakes, though, AFAIK). I even went to half of an evening service on his invitation - I left when the little old lady behind me started speaking in tongues - fluent Rhode Island Red, it sounded like to me. Even after that, he was still nice. Just also very weird.

Pensee · 08-20-2002, 02:29 PM

I grew up in a Church of God and regularly attended one up until about Jan. 2001. I can't speak for every single Church of God church, but ours didn't follow hardly any of that stuff.

I've never heard of the majority of those claims.

The only ones I know of are:

Speaking in tongues

Exorcism

Faith healing, but not in every instance. Many times medicine is used, although faith healing is the preferred method.

No tobacco, alcohol, drugs. Although some people did still smoke.

"We ought to obey God rather than man" - disdain for the law. Again, this is only in certain instances. If it were illegal to pray or read the bible, then yes, they'd do it anyway. And they do break the laws in foreign countries, in an effort to evangelize, but so do many other Christian sects. For the most part, they follow some verse that says to obey the laws of your land.

That's all I know of. I can't tell you where they get the rest of that stuff.

Women do cut their hair and wear makeup. My cousin, who was the drummer for the church, and the youth pastor (both males) had long hair. I, and many others, used to wear shorts and jeans to Wednesday night services. We wore jewelry and watches and everything else. So the strict dress code is false, too.

I'm not exactly sure of what "thrashing around in physical ecstasy" entails, so no comment there. They do get "slain in the Spirit" and annointed with oil.

Never heard of a restriction on caffeine. Maybe the old people like their coffee too much...

As far as glasses go, I have seen the visiting speaker (in revival) throw off someone's glasses and "speak healing" over that person. But this was an isolated event, and by the way, that person didn't stop wearing their glasses.

Any kisses were done on the cheek, not the lips. And men were not involved. It was women-to-women.

The following is absolutely absurd, in claims towards the Church of God:

"Ritual drinking of strichnine(nasty poison)

Running a blow-torch up and down arms - biblical interpretation of "handling fire"

Putting fingers into electrical sockets during ecstasy.

Walking on live scorpions and poisonous snakes

The handling of deady poisonous snakes during ritual...."

I've never seen a snake in the church or anyone putting fingers in sockets or handling fire or any other deadly stunts like that. IIRC, the church considered denominations who did such things to be cults.

Bible Humper · 08-20-2002, 02:30 PM

Hmm, I figured that they got their dress code from the bible. If the "biblical dress code" demanded a toga or something similar, then the dress code they follow isn't biblical.

Quote:

As part of leading a "godly life," sign followers must adhere to a strict moral code. Members of this sect must dress very plainly. In fact, jewelry is kept to a minimum. Some groups go so far as to consider wedding bands or watches as too extravagant. They cite 1 Peter 1:18, "For as much as you know that ye were not redeemed with corruptable things, as silver or gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers," to justify their stance (Kimborough 1995, 32). Women, moreover, generally wear their hair long without any artificial curling, straightening or coloring and men must keep their hair short. For the hair restrictions they cite 1 Corinthians 11:14-15, "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him? but if a woman have long hair it is a glory to her: for her hair is given to her for a covering" (Kimborough 1995, 32). Dressing standards for both men and women are very plain. Men wear open necked, long-sleeved shirts and slacks [although jeans and bib-overalls are generally accepted as well] (Kimborough 1995, 32). Women must wear dresses of solid or flowered print (LaBarre 1969, 16).

Bible Humper · 08-20-2002, 02:35 PM

Hello Stardust,

The mainstream Church of God no longer accepts the "signs following" subsect.

Quote:

History of Church Of God With Signs Following:

Snake Handlers are more generally known as the Church of God with Signs Following. Under this umbrella term falls the loosely organized "Pentecostal churches, ministers and itinerent preachers popularly known as snake handlers." The practice itself developed out of the Pentecostal-Holiness movement which flourished in the first two decades of the twentieth century (Melton 1996, 636).

The practice is believed to have started with George Hensley in the hills of Tennessee (Melton 1996, 636). As church lore has it, snake handling started sometime in the later part of the first decade of the twentieth century while Hensley was preaching at the Church of God, Cleveland, Tennessee. During Hensley's sermon about Mark 16 some men dumped out a box full of rattlesnakes in front of him. Without missing a beat Hensley reached down and picked up the snakes, preaching the entire time. By 1914 the practice had spread throughout the Church of God, however, the actual act of snake handling was only practiced by a small portion of the members (Melton 1996, 636).

Hensley then settled to preaching in the Grasshopper Valley region of Tennessee a few miles away from Cleveland. He stayed here for a number of years. When "a member almost died from a snake bite [Hensley] moved to Pine Mountain, Kentucky." By the Late 1920s the support for snake handling vanished in the old Cleveland church and many of the Church of God branches. By 1928, snake handling became the activity of only a few independent churches nestled in the Appalachian Mountains where it stayed until its revival in the 1940s (Melton 1996, 636).

In the 1940s snake handling saw a resurgence led by Raymond Harris and Tom Harden. These men went on to start the Dolly Pond Church of God with Signs Following in Grasshopper Valley. Lewis Ford a member of the Dolly Pond congregation died from snake handling in 1945. His death led to the official banning of snake handling in Tennessee in 1947 (Burton 1993, 81). Hensley, still alive and practicing, was arrested in Chattanooga under new the statute in 1948. North Carolina which followed suit and banned snake handling as well shut down the Interstate Convention of believers in Durham in 1947. These incidents started the battles with the government over the right to handle snakes [see issues and controversies for more details] (Melton 1996, 636).

Snake handling withdrew again in the early 1950s only to be thrust into the spotlight again in 1971. After three people died in Tennessee and Georgia from either snake bites or strychnine poisoning, snake handling came under attack once more. This time the ban was challenged on First Amendment grounds, the Tennessee State Supreme Court reaffirmed the ban in 1973 (Melton 1996, 636).

An interesting footnote is that while snake handlers in North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia all trace their heritage back to George Hensley, the sign followers in Alabama and Georgia have a different origin. Evidently a man named James Miller "took up the serpents" entirely on his own after deep reflection over the scripture. He first brought the practice to Sand Mountain, Alabama around 1912. By 1920 he had spread the practice into southern Georgia, specifically, Berrien and Cook counties (Burton 1993, 7).

Cappy · 08-21-2002, 08:58 AM

My wife went to one of these churches with a friend once. She said it was the weirdest thing she ever saw. People speeking in weird toungues and such. Glad she didn't get sucked in.

Cappy · 08-21-2002, 09:12 AM

***If anyone can find fundies that top these yokels for pure christian madness, please do...***

I have a fundie cousin who thinks this nation needs another revolution. To throw out the old government and start one based on the bible. He claims that this nation was founded on the bible in the beginning. I thought it was founded on religious freedom, and kept religion separated as much as possible. One of his other claims is that ever since we took the bible out of public schools, this society has been rapidyly declining; more crime, teen pregnancies, etc. My thoughts on that are that these things are caused by the economy. It's almost impossible for the average middle-class family to make it on one income. We have taken the mother out of the home, or the father. This means less disipline for the kids, and less quality family time. Some kids get literally left behind because their parents are to busy with their careers. But maybe thats just me.

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08-20-2002, 12:45 PM	#2
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Boy, Steve Irwin could be a god in that cult!

08-20-2002, 12:49 PM	#3
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	This is the brand of Christianity Ashcroft embrases? I was much happier when I did not know the details. Does anybody else find these two items to be odd? "No tobacco, alcohol, drugs or even caffeine" "Ritual drinking of strichnine(nasty poison)" Why drink a poison during church services, the refuse far less nasty poisons? Simian

08-20-2002, 12:55 PM	#4
Bible Humper Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,125	"Mainstream" Pentecostals reject the snake handling aspect, strychnine drinking, and the blow-torch up and down the arms though. Edit: wrote "strichnine instead of "strychnine" [ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ] <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> [ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]</p>

08-20-2002, 02:29 PM	#6
Pensee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: florida Posts: 657	I grew up in a Church of God and regularly attended one up until about Jan. 2001. I can't speak for every single Church of God church, but ours didn't follow hardly any of that stuff. I've never heard of the majority of those claims. The only ones I know of are: Speaking in tongues Exorcism Faith healing, but not in every instance. Many times medicine is used, although faith healing is the preferred method. No tobacco, alcohol, drugs. Although some people did still smoke. "We ought to obey God rather than man" - disdain for the law. Again, this is only in certain instances. If it were illegal to pray or read the bible, then yes, they'd do it anyway. And they do break the laws in foreign countries, in an effort to evangelize, but so do many other Christian sects. For the most part, they follow some verse that says to obey the laws of your land. That's all I know of. I can't tell you where they get the rest of that stuff. Women do cut their hair and wear makeup. My cousin, who was the drummer for the church, and the youth pastor (both males) had long hair. I, and many others, used to wear shorts and jeans to Wednesday night services. We wore jewelry and watches and everything else. So the strict dress code is false, too. I'm not exactly sure of what "thrashing around in physical ecstasy" entails, so no comment there. They do get "slain in the Spirit" and annointed with oil. Never heard of a restriction on caffeine. Maybe the old people like their coffee too much... As far as glasses go, I have seen the visiting speaker (in revival) throw off someone's glasses and "speak healing" over that person. But this was an isolated event, and by the way, that person didn't stop wearing their glasses. Any kisses were done on the cheek, not the lips. And men were not involved. It was women-to-women. The following is absolutely absurd, in claims towards the Church of God: "Ritual drinking of strichnine(nasty poison) Running a blow-torch up and down arms - biblical interpretation of "handling fire" Putting fingers into electrical sockets during ecstasy. Walking on live scorpions and poisonous snakes The handling of deady poisonous snakes during ritual...." I've never seen a snake in the church or anyone putting fingers in sockets or handling fire or any other deadly stunts like that. IIRC, the church considered denominations who did such things to be cults.

08-21-2002, 08:58 AM	#9
Cappy Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 39	My wife went to one of these churches with a friend once. She said it was the weirdest thing she ever saw. People speeking in weird toungues and such. Glad she didn't get sucked in.

08-21-2002, 09:12 AM	#10
Cappy Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 39	*If anyone can find fundies that top these yokels for pure christian madness, please do...* I have a fundie cousin who thinks this nation needs another revolution. To throw out the old government and start one based on the bible. He claims that this nation was founded on the bible in the beginning. I thought it was founded on religious freedom, and kept religion separated as much as possible. One of his other claims is that ever since we took the bible out of public schools, this society has been rapidyly declining; more crime, teen pregnancies, etc. My thoughts on that are that these things are caused by the economy. It's almost impossible for the average middle-class family to make it on one income. We have taken the mother out of the home, or the father. This means less disipline for the kids, and less quality family time. Some kids get literally left behind because their parents are to busy with their careers. But maybe thats just me.

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