Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amazon · 06-30-2002, 07:53 AM

I can't believe it.
They actually published BOTH the letters I sent to the newspaper. I sent them separately, and they printed them together.

Link Deleted - they changed the content of the linked page. I copied the article in my post later in this thread.

I hope this link works.
My letter is near the end of the page, with a similar title to the one I put on the link.
I hope I have represented us fairly and well.
Now I have to go out and buy a copy of this paper so I can laminate this triumph.

July 1st: The link above still works, but they have replaced Sunday's letters with today's letters, so the referenced article is gone. I will disable the link later.

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Amazon ]

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Amazon ]

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Amazon ]

One of the last sane · 06-30-2002, 09:05 AM

WTG. Good letter.

Toto · 06-30-2002, 09:33 AM

I'm impressed they put it next to this one:

Quote:

Another believer in rewarding mind game

I share Edwin A. Hollatz's (June 23 letter) enthusiasm for your daily Cryptoquotes.

Cracking a code to uncover yet another kernel of wit or wisdom is truly a rewarding mental exercise.

I have one question, however.

Why is it that among the hundreds of individuals and sources cited to date, I have never read a statement by Jesus or a quote from the Bible?

Marilyn Foley

Carpentersville

Splat · 06-30-2002, 08:32 PM

Congrats, and nice work!

My local paper published a nice sane letter supporting the decision, and an incredibly stupid one from a detractor. I know the editor, and I know she did it just to make the god&country folks look like the morons they are.

beekay · 06-30-2002, 08:48 PM

Great job on that letter. Make sure to report back if anyone submits a letter in opposition to yours!

RufusAtticus · 06-30-2002, 10:05 PM

My letter is being published too, and I just sent another one off.

<a href="http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/070102/let_letter4.shtml" target="_blank">Ruling against pledge's 'under God' is good for America</a>

~~RvFvS~~

Amazon · 07-01-2002, 04:52 AM

Wow, Rufus!
What a great letter!
I think I'll print out and post yours right next to mine in my cubicle here at work.

Congratulations!

Amazon · 07-01-2002, 05:04 AM

Well, the Daily Herald does not archive its letters to the editor, so there is a whole new batch of them on the link above. I may just disable the link.
But before I do, if you want to get your blood boiling, today's letters to the editor feature a few doozies from the anti-ruling perspective, including one person who has dredged up many pro-Christian quotes from our founding fathers. I wonder if they would print one like that from us.

Where's my Thomas Jefferson book...

Amazon · 07-01-2002, 09:19 AM

I decided to follow up with an e-mail to all my Congresspersons. I went through Congress.org. They make it very easy to send messages to Congress, but I can't vouch for how well they are received by the representatives themselves.
Anyway, here is what I just shot off to my Congressmen:

"Dear Representative Hastert,

As an involved member of your constituency, I wanted to take a moment to express my support for the 9th Circuit Court ruling regarding the unconstitutionality of the current, revised Pledge of Allegiance.
Regardless of any American�s stance on the existence of a God, we are one nation under a constitution. The words �under God� in their current context, not only act as a religious test of patriotism for adults, but as a tactic of indoctrination when recited daily by schoolchildren. The schools are institutions of authority, and when the majority of students and teachers willingly recite �under god�, that serves as an endorsement of religion from a position of publicly-funded authority. No plea to �tradition� can redeem that transgression.
I am afraid that the removal of the words �under God� from the pledge may be even more painful than the disastrous addition of them in 1954, but I support it in the interest of public neutrality. Since no one in this country is refused the right or the opportunity to worship on their own time, I humbly request your help in leaving the religious references to the private sector, and in keeping the government � along with its schools and services � secular."

And here is the content of my letter that got published in Sunday's Daily Herald:

Shouting on steps of Capitol was childish
Once again, a great many of our Congressmen gathered on the Capitol steps yesterday with childish naivet� to try to bully the non-Christian minority back into submission.
Their ridiculous shouting of �under god� while reciting the revised (1954) Pledge of Allegiance was as subtle as a garbage can and as thoughtful as a slap in the face to the millions of Americans they represent who have been working tirelessly to preserve the separation of state and church all these years, as our founding fathers intended.
Clearly they care not for neutrality in the interest of fairness to all Americans, and are willing to humiliate themselves in front of the world to prove it.
Don�t bother our Congress with the facts. They have already made up their minds.
Thank goodness someone in a position of authority finally gets it. To more than one of every 10 Americans, there is no god.
The other nine out of ten can repeat that �under god� is non-denominational and applies to everyone until they�re blue in the face, but that will never make it true.
If people who believe in a god really thought that acknowledgement of their god in the Pledge of Allegiance were not really a religious reference, they wouldn�t be fighting so hard to keep it, and they would not have sneaked it in to the pledge in 1954 in the first place.
It is no mistake that there is no reference whatsoever to a god in the Constitution of the United States. Regardless of any American�s stance on the existence of god, we are one nation under a constitution.
Since the god question is not one for the publicly-funded schools to answer, why was it ever okay to acknowledge a god from the school�s position of authority in the first place? One nation, indivisible. E Pluribus Unum.

I actually sent it as 2 separate letters, but they printed them both together. Cool, huh?
I have been reading so many of these C/S Separation threads, and one of the most complained-about situations is how we don't seem to have clout or representation.

Only WE can change that. Please write to Congress this week. Don't let them beat us into submission. We don't do any good if we only complain to each other - we have to complain to the RIGHT PEOPLE.

Then, we must become the right people.

RufusAtticus · 07-01-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus:
<a href="http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/070102/let_letter4.shtml" target="_blank">Ruling against pledge's 'under God' is good for America</a>

Well, I've gotten some responses. My answering machine has a message from an anomyous good ole' boy advising me to just not say the pledge. Of course he doesn't actually address whether it is in violation of the first amendment or not. Here is the message:

Quote:

Hello--uh yeah. This message is for a Reed Cartwright that runnin' through the Athens Banner Herald paper. Uh, wha you-what you believe is fine uh but my main thing is that you know that if you don't like what's in the pledge of alliegiance what you need to do is just not say it. Simple as that. Don't base your theory on the whole rest of the American population just for what you believe. So--you know--best thing for you to do is if you don't like what's in it, don't say it. I'm not trying to be a dickhead or nothin' but I'm just tellin' you the facts. See ya.

My mom also got a call from our uneducated maid who was upset at what I wrote. I was over there at the time, but didn't get to talk to her. One of our close friends also called to see my mother had read the paper yet.

~~RvFvS~~

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]

06-30-2002, 07:53 AM	#1
Amazon Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Chicago area Posts: 210	My Opinion on Pledge Decision was Published! I can't believe it. They actually published BOTH the letters I sent to the newspaper. I sent them separately, and they printed them together. Link Deleted - they changed the content of the linked page. I copied the article in my post later in this thread. I hope this link works. My letter is near the end of the page, with a similar title to the one I put on the link. I hope I have represented us fairly and well. Now I have to go out and buy a copy of this paper so I can laminate this triumph. July 1st: The link above still works, but they have replaced Sunday's letters with today's letters, so the referenced article is gone. I will disable the link later. [ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Amazon ] [ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Amazon ] [ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Amazon ]</p>

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06-30-2002, 09:05 AM	#2
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	WTG. Good letter.

06-30-2002, 08:32 PM	#4
Splat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hell, PA Posts: 599	Congrats, and nice work! My local paper published a nice sane letter supporting the decision, and an incredibly stupid one from a detractor. I know the editor, and I know she did it just to make the god&country folks look like the morons they are.

06-30-2002, 08:48 PM	#5
beekay Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 121	Great job on that letter. Make sure to report back if anyone submits a letter in opposition to yours!

06-30-2002, 10:05 PM	#6
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	My letter is being published too, and I just sent another one off. <a href="http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/070102/let_letter4.shtml" target="_blank">Ruling against pledge's 'under God' is good for America</a> ~~RvFvS~~

07-01-2002, 04:52 AM	#7
Amazon Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Chicago area Posts: 210	Wow, Rufus! What a great letter! I think I'll print out and post yours right next to mine in my cubicle here at work. Congratulations!

07-01-2002, 05:04 AM	#8
Amazon Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Chicago area Posts: 210	Well, the Daily Herald does not archive its letters to the editor, so there is a whole new batch of them on the link above. I may just disable the link. But before I do, if you want to get your blood boiling, today's letters to the editor feature a few doozies from the anti-ruling perspective, including one person who has dredged up many pro-Christian quotes from our founding fathers. I wonder if they would print one like that from us. Where's my Thomas Jefferson book...

07-01-2002, 09:19 AM	#9
Amazon Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Chicago area Posts: 210	I decided to follow up with an e-mail to all my Congresspersons. I went through Congress.org. They make it very easy to send messages to Congress, but I can't vouch for how well they are received by the representatives themselves. Anyway, here is what I just shot off to my Congressmen: "Dear Representative Hastert, As an involved member of your constituency, I wanted to take a moment to express my support for the 9th Circuit Court ruling regarding the unconstitutionality of the current, revised Pledge of Allegiance. Regardless of any American�s stance on the existence of a God, we are one nation under a constitution. The words �under God� in their current context, not only act as a religious test of patriotism for adults, but as a tactic of indoctrination when recited daily by schoolchildren. The schools are institutions of authority, and when the majority of students and teachers willingly recite �under god�, that serves as an endorsement of religion from a position of publicly-funded authority. No plea to �tradition� can redeem that transgression. I am afraid that the removal of the words �under God� from the pledge may be even more painful than the disastrous addition of them in 1954, but I support it in the interest of public neutrality. Since no one in this country is refused the right or the opportunity to worship on their own time, I humbly request your help in leaving the religious references to the private sector, and in keeping the government � along with its schools and services � secular." And here is the content of my letter that got published in Sunday's Daily Herald: Shouting on steps of Capitol was childish Once again, a great many of our Congressmen gathered on the Capitol steps yesterday with childish naivet� to try to bully the non-Christian minority back into submission. Their ridiculous shouting of �under god� while reciting the revised (1954) Pledge of Allegiance was as subtle as a garbage can and as thoughtful as a slap in the face to the millions of Americans they represent who have been working tirelessly to preserve the separation of state and church all these years, as our founding fathers intended. Clearly they care not for neutrality in the interest of fairness to all Americans, and are willing to humiliate themselves in front of the world to prove it. Don�t bother our Congress with the facts. They have already made up their minds. Thank goodness someone in a position of authority finally gets it. To more than one of every 10 Americans, there is no god. The other nine out of ten can repeat that �under god� is non-denominational and applies to everyone until they�re blue in the face, but that will never make it true. If people who believe in a god really thought that acknowledgement of their god in the Pledge of Allegiance were not really a religious reference, they wouldn�t be fighting so hard to keep it, and they would not have sneaked it in to the pledge in 1954 in the first place. It is no mistake that there is no reference whatsoever to a god in the Constitution of the United States. Regardless of any American�s stance on the existence of god, we are one nation under a constitution. Since the god question is not one for the publicly-funded schools to answer, why was it ever okay to acknowledge a god from the school�s position of authority in the first place? One nation, indivisible. E Pluribus Unum. I actually sent it as 2 separate letters, but they printed them both together. Cool, huh? I have been reading so many of these C/S Separation threads, and one of the most complained-about situations is how we don't seem to have clout or representation. Only WE can change that. Please write to Congress this week. Don't let them beat us into submission. We don't do any good if we only complain to each other - we have to complain to the RIGHT PEOPLE. Then, we must become the right people.

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