Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Anson · 07-02-2003, 06:01 PM

pz · 07-02-2003, 06:17 PM

Yeah. It's just somebody who idolizes Harun Yahya, the moslem creationist. Just another idiot on the web.

Doubting Didymus · 07-02-2003, 06:18 PM

It took me a while to work out what the hell the site was about, due to its horiffic cluttered layout, but I eventually spied the name Harun Yahya, a man infamously and probably blissfully ignorant of evolution.

He is useful for pointing out how narrow the perspective of christian creationists is, seeing as he insists that the real truth, once evolution is proven false, is found in the quaran, not the bible after all. Other than that, the site appears to be nothing but a misinterpretation of the scientific reporting media. It laments the bigotry that only evolution is ever given scientific credence in scientific media. How could this be, given that the quaran is the actual truth?

Roland98 · 07-02-2003, 06:36 PM

I've read gibberish by Harun Yahya previously, but since I expended the computer time on my dial-up to open this page, I thought I might as well make use of the time.

One of the pages on the sidebar is "10 fabrications of Darwinists." I'm familiar with most of them, but I guess I hadn't heard this one before:

Quote:

7. THE LIE THAT "VERTEBRATES' FIVE-FINGERED HAND STRUCTURE IS EVIDENCE OF EVOLUTION"

The dolphin's fin, the bat's wing and the human hand all contain a five-fingered bone structure. This similarity has for a long time been put forward in evolutionist schoolbooks or popular publications as evidence they all evolved from a common ancestor. Genetic research, however, has shown that these organs, which seem so alike on the surface, are actually controlled by very different genes. Evolutionists today admit that "similar organs do not represent evidence of evolution."

Since I work with organisms that don't even have a diploid genome, much less fingers, can someone educate me on this?

pz · 07-02-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland98

Since I work with organisms that don't even have a diploid genome, much less fingers, can someone educate me on this?

The claim is total nonsense. Similar genes are doing similar jobs in the limbs of those vertebrates.

For just one example, take a look at this diagram of the evolution of distal-less (an important regulatory gene responsible for triggering the protrusion of limbs) from Gilbert's page on evolutionary homologies.

Similar genes aren't just being used to make mammalian limbs -- they are homologous to those used to make insect limbs! There are big molecular differences between insect and mammalian limbs, as well, but the gene regulatory processes between mammalian limbs involve virtually all the same players.

Nic Tamzek · 07-03-2003, 12:02 AM

Heh, great post PZ.

But at the end of that webpage...

Discussing the possible "common ancestor" of insect limbs and vertebrate limbs as some sort of protrusion on a worm, they write:

Quote:

One possibility (not mentioned by the authors of this paper) is that Distal-less expression was first used as a mechanism to construct the copulatory organ.

If this were proven, you'd never look at your arm in quite the same way again...

Roland98 · 07-03-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pz
The claim is total nonsense. Similar genes are doing similar jobs in the limbs of those vertebrates.

Similar genes aren't just being used to make mammalian limbs -- they are homologous to those used to make insect limbs! There are big molecular differences between insect and mammalian limbs, as well, but the gene regulatory processes between mammalian limbs involve virtually all the same players.

Thanks--that was my understanding but I haven't really kept up on it. I figured it was complete B.S.

07-02-2003, 06:01 PM	#1
Anson Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 109	Do you guys know about this cool website? http://www.darwinism-watch.com

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07-02-2003, 06:17 PM	#2
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	Yeah. It's just somebody who idolizes Harun Yahya, the moslem creationist. Just another idiot on the web.

07-02-2003, 06:18 PM	#3
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	It took me a while to work out what the hell the site was about, due to its horiffic cluttered layout, but I eventually spied the name Harun Yahya, a man infamously and probably blissfully ignorant of evolution. He is useful for pointing out how narrow the perspective of christian creationists is, seeing as he insists that the real truth, once evolution is proven false, is found in the quaran, not the bible after all. Other than that, the site appears to be nothing but a misinterpretation of the scientific reporting media. It laments the bigotry that only evolution is ever given scientific credence in scientific media. How could this be, given that the quaran is the actual truth?

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