Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bible Humper · 08-20-2002, 11:31 AM

Hello Amos,

Quote:

Do you realize that boys births are an alarming minority these days and among those even the sperm count is declining. The vanishing penis is a matter of fact and the illusory penis is why boy children are prized the world over.

Are you aware that there have always been slightly more girls born than boys? I'd love to see the evidence of an "alarming decrease in the amount of males born" and the diminishing ability of men to produce sperm. Any links?

You are still trying to make the Malleus conform to your own theology I see, though I don't see how if you read the damn thing.

The ability to make the penis disappear was meant literally, the witch would disintegrate your dick with magic words and gestures man! I don't understand how you can read that document and conclude that they meant that the existence of witches caused the birth rate of males to decline along with their sperm counts.

Is there some theological reason that this document has to be true? Did an "infallible" Pope declare it was true, thus forcing you to find some way in which it could be true? You really seem to be grasping at straws to make it seem legitimate but at the same time deny the fairy tale aspects that you don't personally believe in.

Another one of the powers of the witch was the ability to summon hail storms, literal hail storms as in balls of ice from the clouds. Not a metaphor for our egos dropping from the heights or some such thing, an actual hail storm. Supposedly the witch did this to damage crops.

When a hail storm would occur in a region, they would try to find the witch responsible. If the whole thing was supposed to be a metaphor, why the fuck would they look for a witch when a real hail storm occured?

08-20-2002, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Splashing Colours Of Whimsy:
Hello Amos,

Are you aware that there have always been slightly more girls born than boys? I'd love to see the evidence of an "alarming decrease in the amount of males born" and the diminishing ability of men to produce sperm. Any links?

You are still trying to make the Malleus conform to your own theology I see, though I don't see how if you read the damn thing.

[/b]

That is actually not true. Over a long period of time more boys have been born and just in the last 15 years more girls are born and the rate of change is alarming. Yes, lots of studies are underway, it is a American phenomenon and the question is why?

Such changes have occured in the past. Just after the first and second WW more boys were born. This means that change is possible and now things are changing and we do not know why.

No, I did not read the Malleus but just looked at a few pages. I had never heard of it and do not plan to defend it but I liked what I read and may return to it someday.

Jove · 08-20-2002, 03:52 PM

I have read this entire thread, and I have a newfound desire to stab things.

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

08-20-2002, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:
 Are you trying to say that there is some sort of world wide witch... ehm I mean woman conspiracy to wipe out the penis because through the random act of procreation more female children are being born then males? Perhaps some evidence would be nice! Oh, but isn't your God in charge of who gets born, what gender they are, etc?

Brighid

Brighid if that was a conspiracy they would not be called witches because they would at least know why they are doing what they are doing and witches do not know what they are doing but only know that they are doing because they are wrong in their opinion of what they are doing or they would not be called witches.

Tell me please, if none of us believe in witches where does the idea of a witch come from if not from some demonized form of reality that is not known to them but is known to some others? This same is true with a Senecan tragedy which cannot be known except to those who know a Divine Comedy? Again, this is also true with the "free will" argument which therefore belongs to the Determinist.

God is responsible for creation only and has nothing to do with birth or gender identity. God is first cause and as such is God also exhausted with the first cause.

brighid · 08-21-2002, 04:36 AM

Amos,

I have absolutely NO clue why any person would believe in "witches." I also don't know why people believe in Fairies, Gremlins, Hobgoblins, succubi, incubi, or that George Bush is more intelligent then a chimpanzee or anything else that is not supported by evidence. Does a belief in these things make these things real? NO! Can you tell me what fallacy you just employed?

All it says to me is that the human mind is very creativ, capable of vivid imagination, and people will believe just about anything. The Church use to believe that lightning was sent by God as a punishment, until Churches started being struck and then a "magical" thing happened and Benjamin Franklin conducted some scientific experiments (ooooh...scary ...scientific experiments) and VOILA that stupid myth was turned on it's ass! Can you begin to see a pattern ... scientific discovery ... end of superstitions ... the enlightenment of man ...

There also could be an explanation as to why (although you have provided NO evidence for this theory of yours) girls are being born at a higher rate then boys. It could be that is some parts of the world it's considered uncivilized and immoral to kill female children upon birth for the crime of being born female (because science has helped SOME of us relinquish SILLY and destructive superstitions), OR that female infants tend to be stronger at birth then their male counterparts and therefore have a lower mortality rate! And perhaps since we all start off as females in utero some just didn't make the "change"!

Ohhhhhhhh.... it's must be the work of "witches" and in order to maintain the power structure of the patriarchy we must disallow women from the priesthood else our imaginary penis' will disappear through acts of sorcery ..... muuuuuuhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww!!

And really, considering the current state of the Church and it's rampant sexual abuse of children and the Church wide cover up of such crimes, maybe JUST maybe your God has something to do with all these female (and potential witches) being born at higher rates

Maybe because these priest are using their penis' to RAPE God's children and thereby desecrating the Holy Body of Christ He is making it possible for women to be ordained to PROTECT the children. I actually think that would be a good thing - allow women ..eh emm... witches into the priesthood to remove the offending penis' through sorcery and cleansing the Church of it's sexual sins ... WOW, Amos ... I think you are on to something!

Come on boys and girls... let's all jump onto the superstition band wagon! Hey, Amos ... pass the bong this way... toke, toke, toke ... dude ... WOW ... now I can see those "witches" ... oohhh... dude ... watch out ... like, your dick is starting to fade away ... and of course your cock ...ahhhhhh... is the .... ONLY ... thing that makes you a MAN ......... ahhhhhhhhhhh...... he's a EUNUCH now ......... ahhhhhhhh .... BUT, but wait ... I am starting to like recall scripture ... uhhh... COOL... didn't like that Jesus dude say Eunuchs were ... like ... the WAY COOLEST with him?? Huh .... well, maybe this whole witch, penis fader magic will like ... I don't know make you way cool for Gawd dude!

Brighid

Cipher Girl · 08-21-2002, 06:19 AM

Reading this thread is inspiring me to think up a comic book hero. Her name is Wicked Wanda.

Her broomstick faster that a speeding locomotive, more powerful than a thundering hailstorm, able to vaporize men's penises with a single glance. Wanda's mission in life is to protect little boys from finding out where the rectory got its name from.

[edited as my grammer sux]

[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: Cipher Girl ]

brighid · 08-21-2002, 06:56 AM

You know, I really wish that there were such things as witches and that by default of my feminine gender I was somehow in the sisterhood that possessed powers that controlled the weather, etc. And I say this as a woman who participates in pagan ritual! If only it WERE true

Amos would already be feminized and all those pedophilic priests too � and they say witches are evil � sheesh �

Wicked Wanda � I like that

I realize I incorrectly categorized Eunuchs, as they do actually have penis� just no balls.

Brighid

08-21-2002, 12:57 PM

Cipher Girl: I love it! <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

08-21-2002, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:
Amos,

I have absolutely NO clue why any person would believe in "witches."

Can you tell me what fallacy you just employed? 

Witches are real just as God is real. The problem is that God is real only because we are not real and to the same extent we are not real can we not have intimations with God. In the end, we are God to the same extent that we can be the continuity of God and all we have to do is know our own true self. Based on this are we in oblivion to our own nature and from this estranged position can we perceive the supernatural nature of God (still within our own mind).

Witches, as we/I know them, have been spiritually fornicated and desire this to be done to others to help justify their own position. It is like spiritual pedophelia and Shakespeare held that they are "from their mothers womb untimely ripped." The scripture for this is Jn.1:13 wherein two kinds of rebirth are described, one that is incipient from God (internally) and the other from carnal desire (the ego awareness). I can elaborate all you wish but the dream of Joseph combined with the angelic visit of Gabriel are crucial in this. I'll leave it at this because I lost you already.

Hence the fallacy I see is ignoratio elenchi.

All it says to me is that the human mind is very creativ, capable of vivid imagination, and people will believe just about anything. The Church use to believe that lightning was sent by God as a punishment, until Churches started being struck and then a "magical" thing happened and Benjamin Franklin conducted some scientific experiments (ooooh...scary ...scientific experiments) and VOILA that stupid myth was turned on it's ass! Can you begin to see a pattern ... scientific discovery ... end of superstitions ... the enlightenment of man ... 

A vivid imagination is proof of our dual nature.

Science is only possible while in oblivion for it must extrapolate the hypothesis from omniscience
and proceed to test the validity of it to remove doubt (or the experiment would be redundant). Remember here that faith and doubt are opposites to be removed through the understanding your own knowledge (Plato's theory of recollection).

I think it was Aristophanes who already then dismissed the scienticfic method as reliable and held that without a philosophic mind science will lead to the destruction of a/any civilization. Of course, the philosophic mind (needed for the inspiration of the hypothesis), does not have to do the experiment because he can just speak his mind and let the rest scramble for the evidence. 

There also could be an explanation as to why (although you have provided NO evidence for this theory of yours) girls are being born at a higher rate then boys. It could be that is some parts of the world it's considered uncivilized and immoral to kill female children upon birth for the crime of being born female (because science has helped SOME of us relinquish SILLY and destructive superstitions), OR that female infants tend to be stronger at birth then their male counterparts and therefore have a lower mortality rate! And perhaps since we all start off as females in utero some just didn't make the "change"! 

That is why science is concerned about it while it is predicted in the Malleus.

Maybe because these priest are using their penis' to RAPE God's children and thereby desecrating the Holy Body of Christ He is making it possible for women to be ordained to PROTECT the children. I actually think that would be a good thing - allow women ..eh emm... witches into the priesthood to remove the offending penis' through sorcery and cleansing the Church of it's sexual sins ... WOW, Amos ... I think you are on to something!

Not really Brighid because that would make it worse. You should try to understand that churches are for sinners and by attracting the so inclined to become priest the Church segregates them from society at large and does this even at risk of creating a small subculture within its own members. This, if true, is always done for benevolent reason and can be compared with an aminal eating its own afterbirth to keep the wolves (and witches) away from the flock. 

Come on boys and girls... let's all jump onto the superstition band wagon! Hey, Amos ... pass the bong this way... toke, toke, toke ... dude ... WOW ... now I can see those "witches" ... oohhh... dude ... watch out ... like, your dick is starting to fade away ... and of course your cock ...ahhhhhh... is the .... ONLY ... thing that makes you a MAN ......... ahhhhhhhhhhh...... he's a EUNUCH now ......... ahhhhhhhh .... BUT, but wait ... I am starting to like recall scripture ... uhhh... COOL... didn't like that Jesus dude say Eunuchs were ... like ... the WAY COOLEST with him?? Huh .... well, maybe this whole witch, penis fader magic will like ... I don't know make you way cool for Gawd dude!

Am I supposed to respond to this or are you just having a "good time" all by yourself.

Brighid[/QB]

Bible Humper · 08-21-2002, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Witches, as we/I know them, have been spiritually fornicated and desire this to be done to others to help justify their own position. It is like spiritual pedophelia and Shakespeare held that they are "from their mothers womb untimely ripped."

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Now you are finding the Lord's truth in Shakespeare's plays?

Note that the witches in Macbeth were not who were "from their mothers womb untimely ripped."

In any case, Shakespeare was writing a story for Christ's sake, you are going to take what he says about them to be true? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

08-21-2002, 06:19 AM	#156
Cipher Girl Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sunny Southern California Posts: 657	Reading this thread is inspiring me to think up a comic book hero. Her name is Wicked Wanda. Her broomstick faster that a speeding locomotive, more powerful than a thundering hailstorm, able to vaporize men's penises with a single glance. Wanda's mission in life is to protect little boys from finding out where the rectory got its name from. [edited as my grammer sux] [ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: Cipher Girl ]</p>

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08-20-2002, 03:52 PM	#153
Jove Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 63	I have read this entire thread, and I have a newfound desire to stab things. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

08-21-2002, 04:36 AM	#155
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Amos, I have absolutely NO clue why any person would believe in "witches." I also don't know why people believe in Fairies, Gremlins, Hobgoblins, succubi, incubi, or that George Bush is more intelligent then a chimpanzee or anything else that is not supported by evidence. Does a belief in these things make these things real? NO! Can you tell me what fallacy you just employed? All it says to me is that the human mind is very creativ, capable of vivid imagination, and people will believe just about anything. The Church use to believe that lightning was sent by God as a punishment, until Churches started being struck and then a "magical" thing happened and Benjamin Franklin conducted some scientific experiments (ooooh...scary ...scientific experiments) and VOILA that stupid myth was turned on it's ass! Can you begin to see a pattern ... scientific discovery ... end of superstitions ... the enlightenment of man ... There also could be an explanation as to why (although you have provided NO evidence for this theory of yours) girls are being born at a higher rate then boys. It could be that is some parts of the world it's considered uncivilized and immoral to kill female children upon birth for the crime of being born female (because science has helped SOME of us relinquish SILLY and destructive superstitions), OR that female infants tend to be stronger at birth then their male counterparts and therefore have a lower mortality rate! And perhaps since we all start off as females in utero some just didn't make the "change"! Ohhhhhhhh.... it's must be the work of "witches" and in order to maintain the power structure of the patriarchy we must disallow women from the priesthood else our imaginary penis' will disappear through acts of sorcery ..... muuuuuuhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww!! And really, considering the current state of the Church and it's rampant sexual abuse of children and the Church wide cover up of such crimes, maybe JUST maybe your God has something to do with all these female (and potential witches) being born at higher rates Maybe because these priest are using their penis' to RAPE God's children and thereby desecrating the Holy Body of Christ He is making it possible for women to be ordained to PROTECT the children. I actually think that would be a good thing - allow women ..eh emm... witches into the priesthood to remove the offending penis' through sorcery and cleansing the Church of it's sexual sins ... WOW, Amos ... I think you are on to something! Come on boys and girls... let's all jump onto the superstition band wagon! Hey, Amos ... pass the bong this way... toke, toke, toke ... dude ... WOW ... now I can see those "witches" ... oohhh... dude ... watch out ... like, your dick is starting to fade away ... and of course your cock ...ahhhhhh... is the .... ONLY ... thing that makes you a MAN ......... ahhhhhhhhhhh...... he's a EUNUCH now ......... ahhhhhhhh .... BUT, but wait ... I am starting to like recall scripture ... uhhh... COOL... didn't like that Jesus dude say Eunuchs were ... like ... the WAY COOLEST with him?? Huh .... well, maybe this whole witch, penis fader magic will like ... I don't know make you way cool for Gawd dude! Brighid

08-21-2002, 06:56 AM	#157
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	You know, I really wish that there were such things as witches and that by default of my feminine gender I was somehow in the sisterhood that possessed powers that controlled the weather, etc. And I say this as a woman who participates in pagan ritual! If only it WERE true Amos would already be feminized and all those pedophilic priests too � and they say witches are evil � sheesh � Wicked Wanda � I like that I realize I incorrectly categorized Eunuchs, as they do actually have penis� just no balls. Brighid

08-21-2002, 12:57 PM	#158
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