Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vicar Philip · 11-19-2002, 04:42 AM

When my wife made that statement, she WAS at the bottom of her depression trough. The very next day she was back to normal. She had been under a lot of stress, both with our disagreements and also her new job.

So, I really don't think she meant it. She may have at the time, and as others have said, we all say things we don't mean in the heat of battle. I don't think my wife was fully aware of what she was saying, just lashing out.

Everything seems better now. I won't delude myself and think it will never happen again, but it's NOT her normal state.

Darren

southernhybrid · 11-19-2002, 05:02 AM

Your wife is very lucky to have such a tolerant, understanding husband, Darren. Hopefully, with a little more time and patience, she will come to realize how much she needs your love and support. I admire your strength and willingness to work things out with her.

HelenM · 11-19-2002, 05:06 AM

Oh yeah, that's happened to me too i.e. I get told "it's all your fault" when in fact a lot of the stress on the other person has nothing to do with me whatsoever!

It sounds like in more objective moments your wife can acknowledge that job stress really isn't the fault of your deconversion after all...

Sometimes I find I just have to wait it out a bit until enough clarity of thinking returns to the other person for them to be more objective about what's causing them to be stressed out. Maybe I'm part of what's causing stress but I'm usually not all of it!

Anyway it's very encouraging to know that things are mostly not that way, Darren

Helen

HelenM · 11-19-2002, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by southernhybrid:
Your wife is very lucky to have such a tolerant, understanding husband, Darren. Hopefully, with a little more time and patience, she will come to realize how much she needs your love and support. I admire your strength and willingness to work things out with her.

I'm guessing that she probably knows it already, deep down, and that's why this has been so hard for her. She's afraid that x-xian's deconversion means she'll lose the support she's relied on until now. I know she's not showing it very well but people in panic aren't very good at understanding their own feelings let alone expressing them, often. Or, that's been my experience anyway. The fear makes them angry...and then sometimes they are angry at the wrong person...

Helen

HelenM · 11-19-2002, 05:14 AM

One more thing...I know I haven't been through a deconversion-in-marriage experience. (And some people don't much like me commenting at all here because of me being a theist and this being a Secular support board)

But, I do feel like I can relate in that, because of me getting ill, I have been through an experience that really threw my husband...and, was it my fault I got ill? No, I don't think so. Was it his? No. But it was extremely difficult for both of us. In fact, I wouldn't say it's completely 'over'. Maybe it never will be - after all, I might get ill again. That's generally how it goes with Bipolar.

Helen

Sabine Grant · 11-19-2002, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM:
One more thing...I know I haven't been through a deconversion-in-marriage experience. (And some people don't much like me commenting at all here because of me being a theist and this being a Secular support board)

But, I do feel like I can relate in that, because of me getting ill, I have been through an experience that really threw my husband...and, was it my fault I got ill? No, I don't think so. Was it his? No. But it was extremely difficult for both of us. In fact, I wouldn't say it's completely 'over'. Maybe it never will be - after all, I might get ill again. That's generally how it goes with Bipolar.

Helen

((((Helen)))))))

HelenM · 11-19-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant:


((((Helen)))))))

Thanks

. I hope I didn't take over the thread this morning...ooops

Proxima Centauri · 11-21-2002, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aerion:
x-xian,

I feel I have to point out that your marriage may very well be doomed. I know this isn't going to be a popular position, but I feel compelled to say this. Your wife married a Christian. This faith is certainly a very important part of her life and her identity. In her eyes, you have made a very, very big change in a very fundimental way. You truly are not really the same man she married.

I'm not saying the marriage can't work. If your wife is willing to agree to disagree then you two can go on together. But, based on what you've told us so far, I don't think this will be the case. In all fairness, I have to see her point of view.

Best of luck to you man!

Defeatism will not help X-Xian. You can do a great deal of harm with it.
I have read many deconversion accounts on the Secular Web and other Web Sites. Marriages usually survive the deconversion of one partner. There is every chance X-Xian's marriage can become as good as it was.
With good marriage guidance councilling his marriage just could get better than before.
Check the credentianl of your Councillor carefully X-Xian. Bad Councillors are worse than useless.

Proxima Centauri · 11-21-2002, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc:
Outtawork,

She too refuses to listen. As I put out the arguments (defensively not offensively), she puts her hands on her ears and goes "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!" I know disturbing pieces get through though.

I asked if she would respond to a voice that spoke out to her from a burning bush and asked her to commit Old Testament type attrocities. For example, fly a plane into a building to kill all the infidels. Would she think it was God or the devil, and how could she tell.

I asked her about all the child abductions and murders earlier this year. God is all knowing, all seeing, omnipresent, all powerful, and oh yes all loving. So there he was wrapping his arms around the beautiful child loving her with his godly love, while the murderer strangled the life out of her. What a blessing it was that some of these children were found unharmed!

"LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!" But still, I know that as a good person and mother, this has to get through to her.

She's got all these christian books laying around. I wonder what her reaction would be to just see atheist books lying around on the coffee table. It's all here. Right at your fingertips tempting you to open it and see the light. It's one thing to know it's out on the Internet. But now it's on the coffee table right here.

Congratulations on your near simultaneous deconversion.

Brett-c, I've never been married but I've grown up in a family where the type of arguing you decribe was often a substitute for better social relationships. In my case arguing was about other matters, not religion. I don't like what you are telling me about this 'La la la' business. Its probably damaging your relationship more than the small amount that gets through is worth.
It could be helping if it gets attention away from quarrelling over the kids. Keep leaving Atheism Books around. She can't argue about their contents unless she reads them first. Overall try and concentrate on getting your marriage back into a loving relationship where you and the kids are not harmed by religion.
'LA LA LA' type relationships are less bad than quarrels over the kid's religion but if possible try and avoid them. Remember your wife just could get a tape recorder and record how you argue.

Proxima Centauri · 11-21-2002, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by x-xian:
Damn I'm tired of this roller coaster ride!!

Tonight I came home from work and could see that there was clearly something troubling my wife. We went into a room by ourselves, and I asked what was wrong.

She had talked to one of her best friends who lives in Missouri about our problems. I knew immediately where she was going, and I said, "So we're back to this." That pissed her off. "I told you what was wrong, and if it involves you, you don't want to hear it!!" No, I said, this is something we've already hashed out several times and I am tired of talking about it. It doesn't matter, she says. It all "makes her sad."

Is it SO HARD to believe that I could be anything but MISERABLE because I don't believe in HER GOD????

Her thinking I'm just "going through a phase" also pisses ME off. Am I reduced to the level of a child simply because I've given up believing in what I consider a FARCE?? A SHAM?? A JOKE that people hide behind and use as an excuse to wield power over OTHERS??

Someone said I shouldn't go into the new church and be disruptive. Is asking questions considered disruptive? I know what response I'm going to get, the standard "We can't know what God's plan is....." That isn't an answer. That's the same as a parent saying "Just because I told you so." Day after day I am presented with evidence against a God up there, patrolling his flawed creation.

Well, I'm not sure what else to say. Yes, part of me realizes that I have sprung this on my poor wife. And she doesn't know what to think. But, I hate that she absolutely will not even CONSIDER my perspective. I "need help," according to her, because my brain has become "twisted." If this is twisted, let's go another 360 degrees!!

Why is it a crime to use reason and logic to think about the status quo? It seems like that's how my wife and all of her "Christian" buddies look at it. Why are people so afraid to step out of their tiny little brain boxes and really evaluate the evidence?? I guess it's easier to go along with the crowd.

I'll stop for now.

Darren

It isn't a crime to use reason and logic. You say your wife is controlling. That may mean she feels insecure when she doesn't get her way for reasons in her childhood. Concentrate on helping
her to feel more secure. Going quietly to Church may help. Later when she's more used to your atheism you can stop going to Church or start arguing there.

X-Xian said,

Quote:

Tonight she really hurt my feelings. I know she's depressed right now, because I talked to her on the phone a few times and she seemed like she was drugged. Anyway, when I got home, she barely acknowledged me. I had to take my kids to a supper for my son's cross-country team, and right before I left she came up and hugged me. During the hug, she said: "The only thing that feels good about hugging you is the warmth from your body."

A normal woman doesn't hug a stranger and say she likes the warmth of his body. She has feeling for you, X-Xian.

[ November 22, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]

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11-19-2002, 04:42 AM	#161
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	When my wife made that statement, she WAS at the bottom of her depression trough. The very next day she was back to normal. She had been under a lot of stress, both with our disagreements and also her new job. So, I really don't think she meant it. She may have at the time, and as others have said, we all say things we don't mean in the heat of battle. I don't think my wife was fully aware of what she was saying, just lashing out. Everything seems better now. I won't delude myself and think it will never happen again, but it's NOT her normal state. Darren

11-19-2002, 05:02 AM	#162
southernhybrid Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: heavenly Georgia Posts: 3,862	Your wife is very lucky to have such a tolerant, understanding husband, Darren. Hopefully, with a little more time and patience, she will come to realize how much she needs your love and support. I admire your strength and willingness to work things out with her.

11-19-2002, 05:06 AM	#163
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	Oh yeah, that's happened to me too i.e. I get told "it's all your fault" when in fact a lot of the stress on the other person has nothing to do with me whatsoever! It sounds like in more objective moments your wife can acknowledge that job stress really isn't the fault of your deconversion after all... Sometimes I find I just have to wait it out a bit until enough clarity of thinking returns to the other person for them to be more objective about what's causing them to be stressed out. Maybe I'm part of what's causing stress but I'm usually not all of it! Anyway it's very encouraging to know that things are mostly not that way, Darren Helen

11-19-2002, 05:14 AM	#165
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	One more thing...I know I haven't been through a deconversion-in-marriage experience. (And some people don't much like me commenting at all here because of me being a theist and this being a Secular support board) But, I do feel like I can relate in that, because of me getting ill, I have been through an experience that really threw my husband...and, was it my fault I got ill? No, I don't think so. Was it his? No. But it was extremely difficult for both of us. In fact, I wouldn't say it's completely 'over'. Maybe it never will be - after all, I might get ill again. That's generally how it goes with Bipolar. Helen

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