fcuk

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're trying to ask, but I thought the question merited discussion .

I don't know anything about saints (I'm not Catholic) so I'll leave that to someone else. I think it's very interesting that the creator(s) of Christianity left this huge blank check in the theology. This is why there are so many deathbed confessions: the only pre-requisite to getting into Heaven is to believe that God is love and Christ died for your sins.

So no, I don't think that to be a good Christian, one must be sinless. You couldn't really be sinless anyway. Look at the long list of supposed sins, we couldn't adhere to them even if we wanted to (and I know plenty of people who try).

daria

My understanding is that humans are so awful a mistake and so incredibly unworthy that there is no way they could ever live a sinless life. The only way the christian god could even stomach looking at them is if they're covered in the blood of christ... what a sadist.

Besides, if babies aren't even sinless (Eve's big screwup), then how do you expect any adult to be without sin?

Amos

Christians are redeemed. Redemption means to re-deem our prior nature. In Catholic theology our first nature as man is good and our second nature as human is evil, or at least, is the only nature wherein good and evil can be known.

To be redeemed is to have our prior identity re-deemed even before the old identity is annihilated. In this prior identity sin is not known nor can it be known because it is a non-rational identity or our second rational identity could not be seperate from it. Without an identity wherein sin is know it is impossible to sin or be counted as sinner. Hence Christians cannot sin (1Jn.3:9).

In protestant theology man is basically evil and is therefore not redeemable and must die with the unresolved paradox sinful yet saved. If this is true there can not be any protestant Christians.

I should add that forgiveness and redemption are not the same and are actually opposite to each other. To be forgiven is to be pardonned without liberation and to be redeemed is to be liberated and this renders forgiveness impossible

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Proxima Centauri

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3 - 23 (I think). How do Christians explain their belief in salvation. Different Christians use different passages in the Bible. Although the Bible says. 'all' have sinned Christians, universally, as far as I know, insist that children who die before the age of about 7 are inocent. How do they explain this?

Who on this website expects Christians to be logically consistent?


[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: B.Shack ]</p>

Amos

There seems to be a paradox with "Christians believe in salvation." Christians are saved and do not believe because for them all doubt has been removed and without doubt there can be no beliefs.

So either you are wrong in your perception of Christians or Christains are wrong in their idea of what it is like to be a Christian.

Let me show you this from the bible. Prior to the ascention of Jesus all doubt needed to be removed for which Thomas needed to be convinced. With the removal of doubt also Peter was defrocked because Peter was the twin of doubt (Thomas here) to prove that only knowledge frees.

Your idea about 7 year olds is just protestant theology which in my view is always wrong.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>