Freethought & Rationalism Archive

slept2long · 07-26-2002, 04:04 PM

I am wondering where the science is regarding this. Are we close or not and what are the hurdles? I am not well read on this subject but I've heard we have the capability to do it all we need is the money to begin perfecting it.

Bill · 07-26-2002, 05:08 PM

In my humble opinion, it remains a pipe dream until it is demonstrated to work. From <a href="http://www.research.ucla.edu/chal/5.htm" target="_blank">THIS PAGE</a> comes the following status report:

Quote:

In 1995, scientists at Princeton�s TFTR achieved scientific break even, whereby their tokamak briefly produced as much energy as it consumed. The next step was the vast international collaboration called ITER, which is expected to produce fusion energy at the rate of a commercial power plant by the year 2010.

I will believe it when I see it, because this technology is so complex that every time they try to get it going really well, something breaks, and they have to go back to the drawing board for another few years. They were supposed to have this working before the end of last century (by the end of 2000, in other words), but they are now not promising it before 2010. That is sufficiently far into the future that by the time we get to 2010, the goalposts are virtually certain to have been moved yet again, sorry to say.

== Bill

Abacus · 07-26-2002, 06:08 PM

Damn. And here I was hoping to have a Mr. Fusion installed on my car soon. Oh well.

slept2long · 07-27-2002, 02:40 AM

Thanks for the link Bill. I was hoping for a more positive response but I'll settle for the truth. HaHa. At least there will still be a subject for Discovery Channel to do an interesting 3 in the morning show on though.

echidna · 07-28-2002, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slept2long:
How far are we from sustained fusion?

On average, about 149,597,890 km although it's winter here & I wouldn't mind being a little closer ...

Corey Hammer · 07-29-2002, 08:46 AM

They also just had a breakthrough where they stabilized some of the interfering turbulence inside the reactor.

emphryio · 08-04-2002, 03:54 PM

Uhhh, have you guys not heard about the styrofoam cup? Where sound waves caused bubbles in this stryofoam cup to collapse, whereby as the volume decreased the temperature supposedly increased until reaching the sun's temp? Of course they haven't talked about sustaining it and are still waiting for other labs to reproduce the results.
But y'all sound as if you've never heard of it?

Coragyps · 08-04-2002, 05:29 PM

The 25 July issue of Nature has a closely related experiment: Didenko & Suslick, Nature, vol 418, pp 394-397. This paper finds that nearly all the energy generated ended up being siphoned off in ordinary chemical, not nuclear, reactions, and the rest went into light emission from the bubbles. Temperatures are apparently *only* about 20,000 K -too cold for deuterium fusion, but hotter than you would have ever guessed that your jeweler's ring-cleaning bath would get.
Work is, however, ongoing, as Didenko didn't really replicate the experiment you refer to. It is recent, too: Taleyarkhan, Science, v 295, pp1868-1873 (2002).

slept2long · 08-05-2002, 05:08 AM

Nope, haven't heard of it but sounds pretty interesting though. I will look up that Nature article and check it out.

daemon · 08-05-2002, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emphryio:
Uhhh, have you guys not heard about the styrofoam cup? Where sound waves caused bubbles in this stryofoam cup to collapse, whereby as the volume decreased the temperature supposedly increased until reaching the sun's temp? Of course they haven't talked about sustaining it and are still waiting for other labs to reproduce the results.
But y'all sound as if you've never heard of it?

I've heard of it, and further experimentation showed it to be a pipe dream. The initial experiments assumed the bubbles were vaccuums, but this was proven false; the actual temperature inside the bubbles as a result was lowered significantly.

I'll look up the article; it's been a few weeks since I saw this.

[ Okay, ignore me; Coragyps appears to be way ahead of me.

]

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: daemon ]

07-26-2002, 04:04 PM	#1
slept2long Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,066	How far are we from sustained fusion? I am wondering where the science is regarding this. Are we close or not and what are the hurdles? I am not well read on this subject but I've heard we have the capability to do it all we need is the money to begin perfecting it.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-26-2002, 06:08 PM	#3
Abacus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,214	Damn. And here I was hoping to have a Mr. Fusion installed on my car soon. Oh well.

07-27-2002, 02:40 AM	#4
slept2long Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,066	Thanks for the link Bill. I was hoping for a more positive response but I'll settle for the truth. HaHa. At least there will still be a subject for Discovery Channel to do an interesting 3 in the morning show on though.

07-29-2002, 08:46 AM	#6
Corey Hammer Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 368	They also just had a breakthrough where they stabilized some of the interfering turbulence inside the reactor.

08-04-2002, 03:54 PM	#7
emphryio Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: WV Posts: 4,369	Uhhh, have you guys not heard about the styrofoam cup? Where sound waves caused bubbles in this stryofoam cup to collapse, whereby as the volume decreased the temperature supposedly increased until reaching the sun's temp? Of course they haven't talked about sustaining it and are still waiting for other labs to reproduce the results. But y'all sound as if you've never heard of it?

08-04-2002, 05:29 PM	#8
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	The 25 July issue of Nature has a closely related experiment: Didenko & Suslick, Nature, vol 418, pp 394-397. This paper finds that nearly all the energy generated ended up being siphoned off in ordinary chemical, not nuclear, reactions, and the rest went into light emission from the bubbles. Temperatures are apparently only about 20,000 K -too cold for deuterium fusion, but hotter than you would have ever guessed that your jeweler's ring-cleaning bath would get. Work is, however, ongoing, as Didenko didn't really replicate the experiment you refer to. It is recent, too: Taleyarkhan, Science, v 295, pp1868-1873 (2002).

08-05-2002, 05:08 AM	#9
slept2long Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,066	Nope, haven't heard of it but sounds pretty interesting though. I will look up that Nature article and check it out.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.