Freethought & Rationalism Archive

07-20-2002, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Vesica:

Quote:

Reason does not explain love, or beauty or peace...

It is not clear to me that these qualities require explanation, or that "god" automatically provides an explanation.

One can certainly explain why we may have evolved the emotion we classify as "love".

Equally, "beauty" is not necessarily an objective quality but merely an expression of an aesthetic sense that we have also evolved for good reason.

"Peace" seems to be based on the feeling of contentment we experience when all is going well in our personal worlds. My cats seem to enjoy "peace" in this sense quite frequently.

How do you explain, hate, ugliness, pain, suffering and conflict? This is perhaps more difficult, if an omnibenevolent god is in charge. If, like me, you suppose that we got here as a result of our ancestors' struggle for survival and that the universe is indifferent and uncaring, there's no real problem.

07-20-2002, 08:11 AM

Is any worship of a god or gods different from <a href="http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv" target="_blank">kissing Hank's Ass?</a>

philechat · 07-20-2002, 08:49 AM

Actually, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world now. The percentage of world's population that adheres to Christianity has stagnated for years.

Does that mean Islam is true?

Oh...beloved Xians, answer me. Why is Islam growing so quickly today? Allah's will?

One of the last sane · 07-20-2002, 08:59 AM

As for worship, I think most religions recognize that you have to get people together in a church, mosque, synagogue or whatever, and make them devote some time to 'worshipping', preferably in front of others, to periodically reinforce their beliefs. Otherwise, they drift away from the faith. This is discussed in Sargant's "Battle for the Mind". How better to get people to come in for their regular programming but to say the deity demands it.

The church I used to go to (long ago) was quite honest about the need for regular meetings where people worshipped together, to keep people believing. They also freely admitted to targeting people whose defences were down such as lonely teenagers or bereaved people. A practice which strikes me now as cynical and manipulative.

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: One of last of the sane ]

Miss Scarlett · 07-20-2002, 12:44 PM

A Quote from Robert Heinlein:

"The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has up dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not recieve this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history."

Kind of sums up my own feelings about it.

One of the last sane · 07-20-2002, 02:41 PM

Yeah...if god is so childish as to need it, he doesn't deserve it.

Badfish · 07-20-2002, 11:32 PM

A Christian worships because he is commanded and God dwells in his heart.

TooBad · 07-20-2002, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Is any worship of a god or gods different from <a href="http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv" target="_blank">kissing Hank's Ass?</a>

That link has considerably brightened my morning. It deserves another mention.

Perchance · 07-21-2002, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GTX:
A Christian worships because he is commanded and God dwells in his heart.

Commanded by whom, however? Does he have God telling him face to face (or mind to mind, or whatever it is that God makes contact with a human being using?)

Or is it, perhaps, the Bible? Or a church? Or friends?

Is it at least possible that the source of the commands is not divine?

-Perchance.

[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: Perchance ]

One of the last sane · 07-21-2002, 06:01 AM

If god dwells in an Xian's heart, and makes him worship, doesn't that mean god is effectively worshipping himself?

07-20-2002, 08:59 AM	#44
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	As for worship, I think most religions recognize that you have to get people together in a church, mosque, synagogue or whatever, and make them devote some time to 'worshipping', preferably in front of others, to periodically reinforce their beliefs. Otherwise, they drift away from the faith. This is discussed in Sargant's "Battle for the Mind". How better to get people to come in for their regular programming but to say the deity demands it. The church I used to go to (long ago) was quite honest about the need for regular meetings where people worshipped together, to keep people believing. They also freely admitted to targeting people whose defences were down such as lonely teenagers or bereaved people. A practice which strikes me now as cynical and manipulative. [ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: One of last of the sane ]</p>

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07-20-2002, 08:11 AM	#42
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	Is any worship of a god or gods different from <a href="http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv" target="_blank">kissing Hank's Ass?</a>

07-20-2002, 08:49 AM	#43
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	Actually, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world now. The percentage of world's population that adheres to Christianity has stagnated for years. Does that mean Islam is true? Oh...beloved Xians, answer me. Why is Islam growing so quickly today? Allah's will?

07-20-2002, 12:44 PM	#45
Miss Scarlett Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: transplanted Californian in the UK Posts: 20	A Quote from Robert Heinlein: "The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has up dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not recieve this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history." Kind of sums up my own feelings about it.

07-20-2002, 02:41 PM	#46
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	Yeah...if god is so childish as to need it, he doesn't deserve it.

07-20-2002, 11:32 PM	#47
Badfish Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Death Valley, CA Posts: 1,738	A Christian worships because he is commanded and God dwells in his heart.

07-21-2002, 06:01 AM	#50
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	If god dwells in an Xian's heart, and makes him worship, doesn't that mean god is effectively worshipping himself?

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