Big Spoon

A virtuous act with no reward is superior to a virtuous act with a reward ( I can't remember who said this originally). Therefore the capacity of a religious person who believes in heaven to commit unselfish acts is seriouly inhibited.
If entry to heaven is based on the worth of one's actions then an ethically-minded atheist is far more deserving of this reward than a believer.

keyser_soze

Never let logic and rational thought get in the way of a fundamentally twisted outlook on life.

On the topic...You will get an immediate christian response, "Well, he told us in the gawd book how to get in, who are you to complain if you don't get in...It's written down right there."

Wyz_sub10

This is more of a General Religious topic than EoG.

Off it goes.

Magus55

Entry into Heaven isn't based on ones actions. If it were, not one single human on Earth would get in. Entry into Heaven is based on God's actions, and his gift to us.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

hezekiah jones

Originally posted by Magus55
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It just wouldn't be right to fool God, would it?

Mageth

Originally posted by Magus55
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

(James 2:24) - "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

(Matthew 19:16-17) - "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Taffer

According to the christians I've talked to, God doesn't give a wet cowpat whether you're a kind-hearted saint who died at the age of seventy with twenty grand-children mourning his passage or a convicted murderer still sizzling from the electric chair. As long as you believe, you're home free.

This does raise some thorny ethical questions, but the response was "To believe is to lead a good life". It's quite a clever reply (gets you coming and going), but since human conceptions of good and evil are relative, and nobody can lead a perfect life, it falls kinda short.

Bree

Interesting, how the Bible contradicts itself:

Quote:

James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God) [James 2:21]

Furthermore, apparently it doesn't matter if we have faith or do works - Jesus has already predetermined our salvation for us (Ephesians, Chapter 1).

Celsus

See also:

"I, the Lord, probe into people’s minds. I examine people’s hearts. And I deal with each person according to how he has behaved. I give them what they deserve based on what they have done."
Jeremiah 17:10

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be paid back according to what he has done while in the body, whether good or evil."
2 Corinthians 5:10

"For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."
James 2:26

"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne. Then books were opened, and another book was opened—the book of life. So the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds."
Revelations 20:12

And:
"But she will be delivered through childbearing, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with self-control."
1 Timothy 2:15


Joel

Sci_Fidelity

Posted by Celsus:


Why would god need a book? I wonder if he has alzheimer's or something. Oh wait- this is a figurative book. Sorry :boohoo: