Queen of Swords

"Dad, they [ham, pork and bacon] all come from the same animal!"
"Right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal."

Queen of Swords

Veal I ever stop eating meat? I'm afraid not; the delicious taste bacons to me, and I cannot draw a loin. It's a rare day venison goes down and I haven't enjoyed some meat.

MadKally

You people are full of baloney!!

Queen of Swords

Oh, well done! Which is rare for this medium.

Megatron

Hmm... I'm not gonna touch this one. It would take me a while to stew over a response anyway.

That and... well... I still remember you guys practically making mincemeat of me in the vegetable pun thread.

I'm too chicken to go through that again.

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Zero Angel ]</p>

echidna

The whole thing’s left a bad taste in my mouth, but maybe that’s the baloney.

spin

For good general discussions of teeth see:

Pilbeam, David, The Ascent of Man, MacMillan, 1972
Johanson & Edey, Lucy, Paladin, 1981
Leakey, Richard M., The Making of Mankind, Michael Joseph, 1981

For a clearer overview which puts aspects of the teeth in chronological sequence related to climatic change see:

Coppens, Yves, "East Side Story: The Origin of Humankind", Sci. Am., March 1995, pp.62 ff

The development of humanoid teeth shows a move from arboreal life and the consumption of leaves to savannah life and the consumption of grasses, roots, etc. The back teeth become shorter and wider showing they developed for much more consumption of less useful food commodities, ie a greater intake of food for a lower food value. There is no sign of tooth development favouring the intake of meat. In fact there are fewer elements than any of the other primate family.

The baboon is the farthest member of the family from humans usually seen on a branch of the family which separated along with the macaques long before all the rest of the family -- more than 25 million years ago. Of the closest members of the family, the gorilla was on a separate branch by 10 million years ago; human precursors separated from the chimpanzee and bonobo ancestor around 8 million years ago. This was with the formation of the Great Rift Valley which provoked the climatic changes which brought our ancestors down from the trees and changed the diet from tree fare to what could be scrounged on the ground.

A look at carnivores' teeth show them all basically long and separated on the jaw and there are no outstanding similarities to be found with human teeth. Even the baboons teeth betray the fact that they are not principally carnivorous. In fact they only have one set of long teeth (upper and lower), which seem better suited for piercing than ripping, and a mouth full of herbivorous chewing teeth.

However, most of the books I need are on another continent, so I won't be chasing upsome of the nitpicking the babes in toyland. As I don't have the material on intestines with me, I'll drop the argument (enjoy). (I'm not going to go wading through the crap on internet to find, if any, the few grains of usable information: I've attempted this in other fields and give up to futility as most of the material is just, well, you know, spin.)

The reason for the nitpicking of course is to change the topic in such a way as to move off to things that the nitpicking feels more comfortable with, away from what we were talking about initially, the implications of eating the remains of dead animals, animals expressly grown, maltreated and killed to please wanton appetite.

Another way that the babes in toyland avoid dealing with the subject or their responsibilities toward animals is through ridicule, aimless attempts of being, umm, funny to score entertainment points with the gallery, as most people eat pieces of dead animals now, don't they? Safe audience. Easy rise. No need to think about, or feel guilty for, causing the deaths of animals when there is simply no need. All one has to do is change one's diet and animals stop being killed (how many animals does the average eater cause to die each year?), but people have been trained to eat meat and are slaves to their training. Hey, I didn't choose to eat meat, it came "naturally" (thanks, mom), can't wait to hit MacDonald's and have a burger. It's easier to pass the buck than to do the work of changing one's diet. The argument that we need meat in our diets is, of course, a crock of shit as we can get the nutrients from other sources and, as vegetarians world wide show, people can happily live without meat. The individual can choose to not eat dead animal remains and the consequences cause no damage to that individual and none to animals. So, why don't people stop killing animals for their stomachs? "Thanks, mom."

Wind 'em up, set 'em off, let 'em run down. Whirrrr.

tronvillain

spin:
Actually, let's think about the implications for a minute. If everyone gave up eating meat, what would happen? Well, domesticated food species would probably virtually cease to exist. Your argument appears to be that animals would be better off not being born than being used for food.

Also, the "nitpicking" as you call it is the normal response to unsupported assertions around here. Your points about teeth are meaningless, since no one is claiming that humans are carnivores - we're omnivores that use tools and fire.

tronvillain

Anyway, I do not avoid dealing with the subject - I have already dealt with the subject and moved on. The enjoyment I derive from eating specific animals outweighs the empathy I feel for them.

I have no reason to change my diet.

spin

Put these words into the, umm, mouth of Jeffrey Dahmer: "The enjoyment I derive from eating specific animals outweighs the empathy I feel for them."