Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SLD · 02-09-2003, 08:34 AM

I posted this topic on Talk.origins a few months ago and got some interesting responses and ran into another poster on this board who is a former fundy and thought I'd see if there were some others on these boards who had soem interesting stories to tell:

I am interested in hearing from former creationists who changed their views about creationism and became convinced of evolution.

What was it in the end that convinced you?

Did you completely abandon Christianity, or did you just switch over to a more "mainline" church?

How has it affected your social life? Have your fundy friends and family disowned you? Or do you keep it quiet?

SLD

WinAce · 02-09-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

What was it in the end that convinced you?

1. Retroviral DNA fragments shared between chimps and humans, dogs and wolves, cats and wild cats...
2. Broken Vitamin C pseudogene
3. Fossil skulls that one creationist called an ape and another a human...
4. The revelation that genetic algorithms can evolve cool and unexpected new stuff from old stuff.
5. The crumbling of Christian dogma inside my head that coincided with learning the scientific case.

And no, the fundies haven't disowned me. I actually made some of them acknowledge evolution as a good possibility with the viral fragments.

Psycho Economist · 02-09-2003, 01:09 PM

What cinched it for me was actually learning about the scientific method, what it really meant to be a theory, and what the theory of evolution actually asserted and why.

Of course, I was a freshman in high school taking enriched biology at the time.

I never was a rabid, professional creationism apologist or anything.

Craig · 02-10-2003, 09:42 AM

For me it was about 15 years ago (I'm 31 now). I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness and as such was not allowed to do any reading about anything that contradicted the religion. They provide you will all kinds of "scientific" information that "proves" creation and for me that was enough. At least until I was 15 or so and in high school biology.

Suddenly that evolution stuff actually seemed to make sense. I had also began to doubt that I really believed in the religion itself, or the existence of god at all. I broke their major rule and did some thinking, and researching, for myself and came to the conclusion that

A. I no longer believed in god
B. Evolution clearly was happening

There really wasn't any one thing that made me finally decide evolution looked promising. It was more of a realization that there was SO MUCH evidence for it, and it seemed highly unlikely that all these scientists were in some godless conspiracy. I looked around some more and found out that despite the best efforts to show otherwise by fundies, there is a ton of evidence out there.

And as for how it affected me- I went to college (something they didn't allow) and now nobody in my old congregation is allowed to talk to me.

frostymama · 02-10-2003, 09:49 AM

What was it in the end that convinced you?

*my first semester of college biology

Did you completely abandon Christianity, or did you just switch over to a more "mainline" church?

*I tried mainline for a while, then tried playing around with tarot and reading about neo-paganism. It took about 3 years to fully deconvert

How has it affected your social life? Have your fundy friends and family disowned you? Or do you keep it quiet?

*I have no fundy friends. My family hasn't disowned me. My mother is no longer a YEC. I normally try to avoid the subject or my sister will start spewing crap about "Lucy" being a fraud and that the Bible should be taught in public schools.

Ohio_Infidel · 02-10-2003, 11:12 AM

I wouldn't call my ex-creationism belief fundy so much as I would call it ignorance. Through most of the time that I believed it, I was never active in the church, and I never preached it to other people. I was just young, ignorant, and had no real facts on the topic. It simply took a high school Biology course, and the Internet (stardestroyer.net was particularly helpful) to give me the basics needed to see how utterly stupid my belief in creationism was. I am still in need of more information on the subject, which is why I am eagerly awaiting college.
My abandonment of creationism happened at roughly the same time that I began to seriously question my religion. I would almost say that it was a gateway for me into the areas of critical thought.

Calvinist Dude · 02-10-2003, 01:51 PM

Mine was a convergence of several different things. I was a staunch YEC who gave several presentations to youth groups, my church, and various Sunday School classes. My primary obstacle to believing evolution and an old earth was theological. I bought into the AiG and ICR arguments that death and decay was a result of sin, so no amount of evidence could convince me otherwise. It was through the reading of Hugh Ross's books that this obstacle was broken down and I finally realized that the Bible doesn't even teach this.

The second factor was a debate that I was having on a discussion board similar to this one with a geology professor over the issue of flood geology (smart me, huh :banghead: ) . Needless to say, I got my clock cleaned...several times. The best arguments that I saw against flood geology was the existence of surface formations throughout the various layers, such as raindrops, animal footprints, sand dunes, river beds, etc. Also, angular unconformities and disconformities were powerful arguments. I never realized how weak the case for flood geology was until I was knee deep in that debate. Not a good place to be when you realize that your position is totally bereft of any sound evidence.

Once the theological obstacles were removed, I had no real problem accepting evolution and common descent, although I still don't consider myself a Darwinist. I held to a progressive creation view similar to Hugh Ross's for a short while before moving into a complete evolutionary view of the creation of life. I'm still very much a Christian, but my change caused me to move from my fundamentalist background to a less fundamentalist, Reformed Christianity.

When I resigned my Sunday School position at my former fundy church explaining my changes in belief about creation, most of my class was very charitable about my change. Many were extremely interested in listening to the evidence that caused me to change. Some of them even changed their beliefs after I gave my reasons for changing.

Bubba · 02-10-2003, 03:23 PM

My experiences were kind of similar to the above. I still consider myself a Christian but I'm a much more liberal Christian. I may deconvert someday, not sure what I really believe in some ways now.

No one has disowned me, but I have enjoyed several debates with my fundy friends. I'm getting a little tired of "the second law of thermodynamics proves you wrong..." though.

Bubba

rehpotsirhc · 02-10-2003, 04:21 PM

I was never really a Christian. I went to church because my parents made me, though I didn't really care for it. I accepted evolution pretty early on, probably the first time it was introduced to me.

I guess I was a Christian in the sense that I believed in God and Christ, but only because I wasn't given any alternatives. When I got old enough to really think for myself, I became agnostic. That was right around the time I went to college. But I could only ride the fencepost for so long and became an atheist about 2 or 3 years later. I had a 'moment of clarity' at some point and realized that the Bible was contradictory and that it was just men who wrote it...that there was no real evidence supporting the existence of a god and that there was ample evidence to refute it. Well, ample evidence to refute much of the Bible's teachings, and since it was 'divinely inspired' it also refutes the existence of an omniscient god. The deeper I dug, the more reasons I found not to believe.

My parents think I'm misled. I really think they think it's a phase and that I'll come around eventually. Unfortunately for them I think I hit the point of no return a long time ago. Nothing short of divine intervention will sway me at this point, and it better be pretty overt since I don't believe in a divine being. Beautiful sunsets and newborn babies aren't gonna cut it.

That's the reason I'm no longer a Christian, but that and creation kinda go hand in hand. Once you're not a Christian, creation is of little use.

Skydancer · 02-10-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rehpotsirhc
I was never really a Christian. I went to church because my parents made me, though I didn't really care for it. I accepted evolution pretty early on, probably the first time it was introduced to me.

I guess I was a Christian in the sense that I believed in God and Christ, but only because I wasn't given any alternatives. When I got old enough to really think for myself, I became agnostic. That was right around the time I went to college. But I could only ride the fencepost for so long and became an atheist about 2 or 3 years later. I had a 'moment of clarity' at some point and realized that the Bible was contradictory and that it was just men who wrote it...that there was no real evidence supporting the existence of a god and that there was ample evidence to refute it. Well, ample evidence to refute much of the Bible's teachings, and since it was 'divinely inspired' it also refutes the existence of an omniscient god. The deeper I dug, the more reasons I found not to believe.

My parents think I'm misled. I really think they think it's a phase and that I'll come around eventually. Unfortunately for them I think I hit the point of no return a long time ago. Nothing short of divine intervention will sway me at this point, and it better be pretty overt since I don't believe in a divine being. Beautiful sunsets and newborn babies aren't gonna cut it.

That's the reason I'm no longer a Christian, but that and creation kinda go hand in hand. Once you're not a Christian, creation is of little use.

Similar for me - I never really bought into the religion stuff at all. The sticking point for me was the idiotic flood story - they tried to feed it to me, I must have been about 8, right after I'd read a book about marine vs freshwater fish. When I asked which fish were on the ark, I got all kinds of puzzled looks. The Sunday school teacher eventually had my parents make me stop asking questions. This did not improve their credibility.

Your parents probably won't ever accept your decision unless they make the switch themselves. It's been well over 30 years for me, and my mother -still- insists that I'm going through a phase.

02-09-2003, 08:34 AM	#1
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	Former Creationists Out There? I posted this topic on Talk.origins a few months ago and got some interesting responses and ran into another poster on this board who is a former fundy and thought I'd see if there were some others on these boards who had soem interesting stories to tell: I am interested in hearing from former creationists who changed their views about creationism and became convinced of evolution. What was it in the end that convinced you? Did you completely abandon Christianity, or did you just switch over to a more "mainline" church? How has it affected your social life? Have your fundy friends and family disowned you? Or do you keep it quiet? SLD

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02-09-2003, 01:09 PM	#3
Psycho Economist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 854	What cinched it for me was actually learning about the scientific method, what it really meant to be a theory, and what the theory of evolution actually asserted and why. Of course, I was a freshman in high school taking enriched biology at the time. I never was a rabid, professional creationism apologist or anything.

02-10-2003, 09:42 AM	#4
Craig Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,058	For me it was about 15 years ago (I'm 31 now). I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness and as such was not allowed to do any reading about anything that contradicted the religion. They provide you will all kinds of "scientific" information that "proves" creation and for me that was enough. At least until I was 15 or so and in high school biology. Suddenly that evolution stuff actually seemed to make sense. I had also began to doubt that I really believed in the religion itself, or the existence of god at all. I broke their major rule and did some thinking, and researching, for myself and came to the conclusion that A. I no longer believed in god B. Evolution clearly was happening There really wasn't any one thing that made me finally decide evolution looked promising. It was more of a realization that there was SO MUCH evidence for it, and it seemed highly unlikely that all these scientists were in some godless conspiracy. I looked around some more and found out that despite the best efforts to show otherwise by fundies, there is a ton of evidence out there. And as for how it affected me- I went to college (something they didn't allow) and now nobody in my old congregation is allowed to talk to me.

02-10-2003, 09:49 AM	#5
frostymama Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Georgia USA Posts: 927	What was it in the end that convinced you? my first semester of college biology Did you completely abandon Christianity, or did you just switch over to a more "mainline" church? I tried mainline for a while, then tried playing around with tarot and reading about neo-paganism. It took about 3 years to fully deconvert How has it affected your social life? Have your fundy friends and family disowned you? Or do you keep it quiet? *I have no fundy friends. My family hasn't disowned me. My mother is no longer a YEC. I normally try to avoid the subject or my sister will start spewing crap about "Lucy" being a fraud and that the Bible should be taught in public schools.

02-10-2003, 11:12 AM	#6
Ohio_Infidel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 118	I wouldn't call my ex-creationism belief fundy so much as I would call it ignorance. Through most of the time that I believed it, I was never active in the church, and I never preached it to other people. I was just young, ignorant, and had no real facts on the topic. It simply took a high school Biology course, and the Internet (stardestroyer.net was particularly helpful) to give me the basics needed to see how utterly stupid my belief in creationism was. I am still in need of more information on the subject, which is why I am eagerly awaiting college. My abandonment of creationism happened at roughly the same time that I began to seriously question my religion. I would almost say that it was a gateway for me into the areas of critical thought.

02-10-2003, 01:51 PM	#7
Calvinist Dude Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 6	Mine was a convergence of several different things. I was a staunch YEC who gave several presentations to youth groups, my church, and various Sunday School classes. My primary obstacle to believing evolution and an old earth was theological. I bought into the AiG and ICR arguments that death and decay was a result of sin, so no amount of evidence could convince me otherwise. It was through the reading of Hugh Ross's books that this obstacle was broken down and I finally realized that the Bible doesn't even teach this. The second factor was a debate that I was having on a discussion board similar to this one with a geology professor over the issue of flood geology (smart me, huh :banghead: ) . Needless to say, I got my clock cleaned...several times. The best arguments that I saw against flood geology was the existence of surface formations throughout the various layers, such as raindrops, animal footprints, sand dunes, river beds, etc. Also, angular unconformities and disconformities were powerful arguments. I never realized how weak the case for flood geology was until I was knee deep in that debate. Not a good place to be when you realize that your position is totally bereft of any sound evidence. Once the theological obstacles were removed, I had no real problem accepting evolution and common descent, although I still don't consider myself a Darwinist. I held to a progressive creation view similar to Hugh Ross's for a short while before moving into a complete evolutionary view of the creation of life. I'm still very much a Christian, but my change caused me to move from my fundamentalist background to a less fundamentalist, Reformed Christianity. When I resigned my Sunday School position at my former fundy church explaining my changes in belief about creation, most of my class was very charitable about my change. Many were extremely interested in listening to the evidence that caused me to change. Some of them even changed their beliefs after I gave my reasons for changing.

02-10-2003, 03:23 PM	#8
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	My experiences were kind of similar to the above. I still consider myself a Christian but I'm a much more liberal Christian. I may deconvert someday, not sure what I really believe in some ways now. No one has disowned me, but I have enjoyed several debates with my fundy friends. I'm getting a little tired of "the second law of thermodynamics proves you wrong..." though. Bubba

02-10-2003, 04:21 PM	#9
rehpotsirhc Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: arkansas Posts: 14	I was never really a Christian. I went to church because my parents made me, though I didn't really care for it. I accepted evolution pretty early on, probably the first time it was introduced to me. I guess I was a Christian in the sense that I believed in God and Christ, but only because I wasn't given any alternatives. When I got old enough to really think for myself, I became agnostic. That was right around the time I went to college. But I could only ride the fencepost for so long and became an atheist about 2 or 3 years later. I had a 'moment of clarity' at some point and realized that the Bible was contradictory and that it was just men who wrote it...that there was no real evidence supporting the existence of a god and that there was ample evidence to refute it. Well, ample evidence to refute much of the Bible's teachings, and since it was 'divinely inspired' it also refutes the existence of an omniscient god. The deeper I dug, the more reasons I found not to believe. My parents think I'm misled. I really think they think it's a phase and that I'll come around eventually. Unfortunately for them I think I hit the point of no return a long time ago. Nothing short of divine intervention will sway me at this point, and it better be pretty overt since I don't believe in a divine being. Beautiful sunsets and newborn babies aren't gonna cut it. That's the reason I'm no longer a Christian, but that and creation kinda go hand in hand. Once you're not a Christian, creation is of little use.

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