frostymama

(My appologies if this is in the wrong forum. I had no idea where to put it)

I don't have any clue as to first cause of the universe. I don't even know if there are any non theistic theories out there. Unfortunately this is the first question that is posed to me by theists and I end up looking like a moron.

Are there any plausible theories? Can anyone point me to where I can find some information that won't completely go over my head? (I got lost less than half way through Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" before I got hopelessly lost if that gives you any idea.)

[ September 15, 2002: Message edited by: frostymama ]</p>

diana

Ah, no theories from me. I'll leave that to the more scientific types.

But personally, my lack of knowledge of "plausible theories" has never bothered me.

An answer that doesn't leave you looking stupid is, "I don't know. Where did God come from?" When they say, "God is, was, and always will be," just ask how they think that's possible (but simultaneously think everything they can see had to come from somewhere).

You might also ask why they think they have to know an answer to this question. If they can simply admit they don't know, say, who was the second Frenchman to use the term "McDonald's" in a sentence, then why do they have a problem simply admitting they don't know where the universe came from, which is infinitely less knowable?

Both "who was the second Frenchman to say McDonald's" and "where did the universe come from" have equal bearing on my life. That is to say, none whatsoever.

d

RJS

Probably makes sense for you to read through this thread.

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000313&p=" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000313&p=</a>

wade-w

The thing to remember here is that claiming "goddidit" doesn't really answer that question either. All the theist is doing is slapping a label on an unknown and calling it an explanation. Then we are left with the question "where did god come from?", as Diana points out. And why does the universe have to have a "first cause" anyway?

One major difference between science and religion is that science doesn't claim to have all the answers. And the answers we do have are subject to change. We are just beginning to explore this question, and while some form of the "big bang" theory is still the best explanation we have, the details change frequently as new evidence is discovered.

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: wadew ]</p>

Shadowy Man

Aren't you assuming that the universe was caused?

Jamie_L

"I don't know" is the best answer to that question. Get comfortable with that answer, because it's a good one, and you shouldn't feel like a moron. You DON'T know, and the person you're talking to doesn't either.

Another tack is to question the validity of the question. That is, "why does the universe require a cause?" It's an unfounded assertion to say "the universe must have had a cause". Why? Maybe it didn't. If theists can handle having an uncaused God, why not an uncaused universe? Occam's Razor favors the uncaused universe over an uncaused God any day.

Jamie

frostymama

No, not really. I get asked about the "cause" of the universe a lot. I just didn't know how to answer when I am asked. I honestly didn't know whether it is generaly accepted in the scientific community that the universe had a beginning or not and I figured I would ask. Tons of people here know more about stuff like that than I do.

wade-w

Part of the problem is that "cause" and "beginning" are not necessarily the same thing. The real answer here is that yes, there are theories about the "beginning" of the universe, but we really don't know yet. We may never know. I personally think we will, but that understanding may not come in our lifetimes.

Infinity Lover

Well actually, it began with bunch of people who wanted to know how the universe began...

...once they figured it out, they said "kewl, let's try it out!" and they did.

Demigawd

The First Cause, I believe, was God jerking off.