Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shake · 10-25-2002, 05:11 AM

I know the story's a few days old but I had to bring it up.

Quote:

Astronomers have found a new celestial object - called Quaoar - that orbits a billion miles beyond Pluto, and is half Pluto's size. Quaoar's discovery also calls Pluto's planet status into question, said Mike Brown of the California Institute of Technology, who first detected the object on June 4. His findings were presented on October 8, 2002, to the American Astronomical Society's planetary science division meeting in Birmingham, Alabama. Still, Quaoar acts a lot like a planet. Circling the Sun once every 288 years, Quaoar is located a billion miles beyond Pluto, in an area loaded with icy orbiting objects called the Kuiper Belt.

So, does this really weaken Pluto's planetary status to you? I started questioning it myself a few years ago when I first read that some scientists were questioning Pluto's status. The usual arguments involve its small size and highly irregular orbit (very elliptical and way off the solar plane).

By the way, the quote comes from the caption of an illustration found at Yahoo! News, science photos.

Shadowy Man · 10-25-2002, 06:27 AM

Yeah, there was a thread on this already. Whether an object is a "planet" or not right now is mostly semantic. Perhaps more investigations into the theories of planet formation may shed light on where to draw the line between planets and other objects.

A couple of years ago some people suggested that Pluto should have a double designation, being both a planet and the largest of the Kuiper Belt objects. Some saw this as a "demotion" of the planet and rallied against it. I'll have to take a look at the size distribution of Kuiper Belt objects before I can decide how well Pluto fits in with them. Apparently this new object is about the size of Charon, Pluto's "moon".

It is always difficult to assign discrete terms to continuous distributions - just ask astronomers what the difference between a large gas giant and a small brown dwarf is.

Catseye · 10-25-2002, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Astronomers have found a new celestial object - called Quaoar -

So, we have celestial objects named after Classical gods, and celestial objects named after the tiles you end up with in a really unlucky game of Scrabble. Well, I suppose it makes things more interesting

I'm in favour of Pluto keeping its planet status - mainly, I suppose, because it's always been on the planet list, and while the definition of 'planet' has fuzzy boundaries which can include things like Pluto, it may as well stay there unless we get a more specific definition. The double designation idea Shadowy Man suggested seems like a pretty good compromise, too.

Godless Dave · 10-25-2002, 07:09 AM

tom�to, tom�to

I think we should keep calling it a planet for the sake of the school kids. The average American is clueless enough about astronomy without us changing the basics.

Vinnie · 10-25-2002, 10:03 PM

Quote:

I think we should keep calling it a planet for the sake of the school kids. The average American is clueless enough about astronomy without us changing the basics.

That seems to be the essence of the issue for me. I don't think Pluto has retained its planetary status for "scientific" reasons.

I don't see how changing "Mary's violet eyes made John stay up night pondering" to "Mary's violet eyes made John stay up nights" is going to to have a noticeable impact on the average American or average school kids knowledge of Astronomy.

I also thought this object was detected years ago? I remember hearing evidence of a massive object outside of Pluto and this was a few years back. In regards to the June 6 reference, how was it "detected"?

Vinnie

Kuu · 10-26-2002, 12:16 AM

Here it is 'My Very Earnest Maid Just Swept Up Nine Pins'. It wouldn't make sense without Pluto.

Vinnie · 10-26-2002, 04:27 AM

Can't argue with that. Planet it is!

beausoleil · 10-26-2002, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave:
<strong>tom�to, tom�to

I think we should keep calling it a planet for the sake of the school kids. The average American is clueless enough about astronomy without us changing the basics.</strong>

Is this another example of Yankee imperialism?

bluefugue · 10-26-2002, 06:23 AM

Should the asteroid Ceres be considered a planet? I know it is spherical, but I'm not sure what its diameter is... Is it automatically disqualified by being in an asteroid belt?

Writer@Large · 10-26-2002, 06:58 AM

I learned it as "My Very Educated Mother Just Served Up Nine Pies." But again, loosing the "Pies" would kill the whole thing. So would adding a "Q," come to think of it. "My Very Educated Mother Just Served Up Nine Pabst Quarts."

Never mind the definition of a planet; these scientists need to think of the mnemonics!

--W@L

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10-25-2002, 06:27 AM	#2
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	Yeah, there was a thread on this already. Whether an object is a "planet" or not right now is mostly semantic. Perhaps more investigations into the theories of planet formation may shed light on where to draw the line between planets and other objects. A couple of years ago some people suggested that Pluto should have a double designation, being both a planet and the largest of the Kuiper Belt objects. Some saw this as a "demotion" of the planet and rallied against it. I'll have to take a look at the size distribution of Kuiper Belt objects before I can decide how well Pluto fits in with them. Apparently this new object is about the size of Charon, Pluto's "moon". It is always difficult to assign discrete terms to continuous distributions - just ask astronomers what the difference between a large gas giant and a small brown dwarf is.

10-25-2002, 07:09 AM	#4
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	tom�to, tom�to I think we should keep calling it a planet for the sake of the school kids. The average American is clueless enough about astronomy without us changing the basics.

10-26-2002, 12:16 AM	#6
Kuu Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Tasmania Posts: 710	Here it is 'My Very Earnest Maid Just Swept Up Nine Pins'. It wouldn't make sense without Pluto.

10-26-2002, 04:27 AM	#7
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	Can't argue with that. Planet it is!

10-26-2002, 06:23 AM	#9
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	Should the asteroid Ceres be considered a planet? I know it is spherical, but I'm not sure what its diameter is... Is it automatically disqualified by being in an asteroid belt?

10-26-2002, 06:58 AM	#10
Writer@Large Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,198	I learned it as "My Very Educated Mother Just Served Up Nine Pies." But again, loosing the "Pies" would kill the whole thing. So would adding a "Q," come to think of it. "My Very Educated Mother Just Served Up Nine Pabst Quarts." Never mind the definition of a planet; these scientists need to think of the mnemonics! --W@L

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