daemon

You are comitting an equivocation error here. The Church does not endorse molestations; it accepts it. You said nothing about "endorsement" in your earlier post.

Nonetheless, the fact remains that, not only are pedophiles (actually, not the technically correct term, anyone remember it?) "forgiven" of their crimes, they are deliberately shielded from the governmental authorities. The Church's forgiveness should extend only to the magic evil voodoo (AKA "sin") they've accrued, not the legal and societal penalties of their actions. The Church does not and should not have that authority.

daemon

The Pope's most recent statement on the matter indicated that this was the primary reason female priests are not allowed... this was less than 2 years ago, if I recall correctly.

ManM

brighid,
Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

I completely agree that these priests are doing a huge disservice through their corruption. But how can the Church react to such a situation? If they punish, how can they teach others to be forgiving? If they forgive, how can they avoid criticism like yours? This is a no-win for the Catholic higher-ups.

Furthermore, I personally don't think women priests are the magic bullet answer. You would just be swapping out one set of problems for another. In my experience, women aren't even close to the angels you make them out to be. I wouldn't like it if my priestess went flying off the deep end on a regular schedule. You are right, men tend to be less emotional. In a way, that may be a desirable trait for a priest who gets the dubious honor of praying over peoples' deathbeds week in and week out. Each sex has their strengths and weaknesses, so I'm not sure you can make a blanket statement about the logic of specific sex priesthood.

Also, what is forgiveness if it isn't opposed to justice? If you impose penalties on someone for their crimes, you can't honestly say you have forgiven them. I forgive you for punching me, but I'm still going to have to punch you back? That just doesn't sound right.

bonduca

Perhaps we should bring back the menstrual hut.

bonduca

And yet women are considered qualified to nurse the sick and dying as professional nurses, or in any other non-threatening domestic capacity?

[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: bonduca ]</p>

simian

As a recovering Cath-o-holic (thanks George Carlin(?)), if memory serves me, the justification for men only was that Jesus chose only men to be his apostiles. So, therefore only men are suited to be priests.

As to the church allowing priests to molest children: Do not forget that at least some of these priests were moved to new parrishes, where they could abuse again. If the church had any conscience, they would have removed these men from the opportunity to abuse. While the court cases may be new, I was aware of abuse scandles in the 80s, and just a couple of years ago, on of the catholic newspapers covered rapes and abuses of nuns in Africa by catholic priests there. The worst case I remember from that one: nun gets pregnant, priest arranges for her to get an abortion at a catholic hospital, she dies, he does the funeral mass.

Simian

Amos

I am not here to defend sex offenders and you can castrate them for all I care. You can take their pension, their money, their car, their priviliges and everything they will ever own but you cannot take away their status as priest but you can limit their exposure to function as priest.

Forgiveness is relative to the same extent as you allow it to eat your heart out.

I see the history of the Catholic Church as one of power, wealth and beauty.

[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Amos

Bridghid, priesthood is for males only because the successfull convergeance of the twain mind is available to males only. This may only be one reason but is sufficient in itself and means that the seventh sacrament should never be given to females because that would start them unto a journey in life that they will not be able to finish. Worse yet, with the power given to priest it would/could make witches out of them and the Church is not interested in promoting that which they at one time tried to eradicate.

You are welcome to disagree with this but since you asked I felt obligated to answer your question. Keep in mind here that salvation takes place in the mind of man and begins with a Beatific Vision and ends with the Hypostatic Union. The so become Christian cannot sin (is beyond the law) and so is the Church at large because it represents salvation on earth. In other words, what happens in the mind of man is publicly displayed in the Catholic Church for the world to see and either adore or despise. This choice is yours but the image portrayed by the Church must remain for those that see it just the other way.

Judaism and Catholicism are/were rival religions. We, as Catholics, are Jews by adoption and so become the grafted branches into Judaism to benefit from the Law. Both are equal except that Catholicism is just a little more aggressive through the powers bestowed by the Sacraments.

Other than that I am not aware of anti-Judaism and it is not until things go wrong to members of the Church that they are wrong. I do believe that the Church has always tried to stop error as now is the case with the excommunicated priestesses.

Slavery? I think there is more slavery now than ever before which kind of proves that while we are alienated from God humans must be enslaved to something--even if that is freethinking which in itself suggests that we are not free or we would not have to "think free."

ManM

Splashing Colours Of Whimsy,
Good grief, refusing to defrock is not equivalent to ignoring.

And atheists are only atheists because they want to justify their immoral behavior. Really, let's not bring dumb stereotypes into an otherwise civil discussion. They are all quite meaningless.

If he repented and made efforts to change, then yes. If he didn't, he would get booted.

daemon,
You are right. The Church accepts sin, but does not endorse it. Just like a hospital accepts the sick, but does not endorse sickness... It's just that people have been writing as though the Church endorses child molestation by accepting it. I was keying off of that equivocation.

bonduca,
Very good point. But I hope you have the freethinking capability to understand the drive of what I was saying. Blanket statements about females being better priests are not very useful. Each side has their strengths and weaknesses.

daemon

Yeah, instead you've got these booze-swilling, leering pigs for priests. Good thing they don't let them marry, they'd be beating their wives every other hour!
So far, you're making a pretty good case for male idiocy.