sweep

at times like this I like to mention the role of beta adrenaline, which helps to 'heighten' awareness. When we are excited, we remember better. When we are excited our perception of time changes.

This hasn't been mentioned yet- our awareness depends on changes in the environment. As an experiment, try to fixate your gaze on a spot. After a while your attention will drift, due to habituation in the sensory motors. Also, It isn't actually impossible to properly fixate your gaze. The eyes function by continually darting about in very minor reflexions.

I would also like to add that It is a false dichotomy when we say that humans and animals differ. We are animals. Our specifications (our constitution) differ from other lifeforms, including our senses, which are geared towards relevant stimuli. We are not conscious of high frequency sounds, but it would be foolish to concur that dogs have a 'higher' awareness, or is consciousness not only awareness? As you put it, where do we draw the line? The richness of our experience, including our internal dialogue, and our more basic brain, which is rooted in over ninety percent of shared 'make-up/constitution' with other species, depends upon our specifications. Still, I posit, a fly, is never an *I*.

note: never get attacked on LSD. the inner world becomes the outer world. But, have you wondered why, when you fall over on LSD, it takes longer than the 'norm' to register what has happened to you? Perception of time? Delayed sensations crucial to the internal dialogue: 'I have fallen over. whoops!'

BLADERUNNER: 'I think sebastian, therefore *I* am.'

'very good priss, now show him why'

excreationist

Flies would just be seeking food or mates or resting or avoiding things, etc, based on hard-coded "programs". Mammals and maybe birds, etc, can develop their own goal-seeking strategies... but still, I think that alone isn't enough to have a "self" - an *I*. Maybe being self-aware involves feeling detached from your experiences, and seeing yourself from an outsider point of view, rather than from your own immediate point of view. Anyway, it's more than simple awareness, which I don't think flies even have.

Maybe that aspect of LSD use is a bit like how sleep deprivation and alcohol can make you take longer to react... maybe LSD makes your brain kind of malfunction, so it takes longer for signals to travel... and that could be why sensory types (sounds/colours) can interfere with each other...
Drugs like speed apparently make everything seem like it is going really fast... maybe it involves the brain's clock altering - I think the brain cycles at about 50 times per second... for things around us to appear to be going faster, our processing rate would be going slower... (well that's my theory at least)

sweep

thanks excreationist, I agree, and I am glad that you pointed out the reflective nature of conscious beings. On introspection I recall talking to my friend, steve, who is also known as cypher. Cypher has a special meaning here, in that the cypher is an empty vessel (a non-entity). I realised when applying psychology with the cypher that the only thing occurring, was me turning my own weapons upon myself. Projecting anger, it would come straight back. Projecting fear, I would feel alone. The main point is that we need other people to see ourselves. Our emotional state usually dictates the interaction, and what we see.

I assume when you say speed apparently does 'such and such' you mean you haven't tried it. Well, if you have enough it is like having a brain orgasm every twenty seconds at its peak. I don't think it speeds anything up. Based on the assumption that you're not foolish enough to mess with amphetamines, the main thing to understand is that the bodys metabolism speeds up. Corticotropic hormones affect the adrenal medulla, speeding up the heart rate, mobilising energy reserves, and affecting key receptors on the brain, thereby enhancing conduction across the brain.

Again, assuming that you don't fool around with drugs, LSD, mushrooms and oral doses of hashish (cannabis) will enhance your perception, especially of time, thus enlightening you in subtle ways. There isn't much of a price to be paid for the curious scientist, unless one makes a habit of psychedelic drugs.

Alcohol increase emotions of happyness; Cannabis and LSD 'force' you to deal with fear and paranoia, eventually. Not that you will feel afraid, but a user will come to recognize these feelings as the basic fight or flight responses. The problem is in distinguishing emotions as the physiological state for all emotions has been recorded as qualitatively, emphasis>> 'similar'.

Speaking of unconsciousness, I have twice 'passed out' due to adrenaline induced by drug use. The sight of spurting blood makes my adrenaline levels go really high, I can feel my jugular veins pulsing, my blood pressure goes way high, my palms sweat: all the normal physiological responses you would expect.
I stand up and I'm rushing. the vision in my eyes goes, and then I know I'm going to lose control of my body (and fall into the washing basket). While on the floor I think of my parents and what they would think while I'm on the floor, not able to move.

So, I can say, with confidence, that my nerves have been profoundly 'shocked' or sensitised due to the influence of adrenaline, created by use of (particularly oral doses of cannabinoids around 1 gram in weight) psychedelic substances, and this has led to a 'heightened awareness'. I know it might seem as though I am aloof- undoubtably many have experienced the 'god complex' when high, But it doesn't make me better than anyone else, only more sensitive, than some people. I will add that 'real' fear and 'real' experiences, such as having a baby, will make a person more sensitive, and add to their overall consciousness.

excreationist

sweep:
I've just done some reading about it... it seems like it is a bit like caffeine in some ways - e.g. increased alertness, restlessness, talkativeness, etc... so the person's response to their environment and their studying of the environment speeds up rather than them being more passive and thinking the environment was speeding up. Sorry I was misguided about that.

What do you mean? Does Steve just mimic you, like a parrot? BTW, I think it is a bit of an instinct to imitate others - and I think that empathy is a similar thing.

Maybe in order to manipulate people in order to get what we want we need to understand their perception of us... and when we realize that their perception of us is the same thing as the thing that is making the demands, we are conscious that the *I* is there. The emotional state we portray to others is part of the things we can use to manipulate others - and that we can be self-conscious of.

DMT seems like one of the best ones... here are some accounts of people's experiences.

I thought drug users usually would become less "with it" rather than more.

doghouse

These criteria are generally accepted in human neurology and used in the evaluation of people with normal or impaired consciousness. They are based on an understanding of the structure and function of the normal human brain and the way the brain responds to disease. Because I think consciousness is solely a function of the nervous system, I think this is an appropriate definition.

I admit I have extrapolated these criteria to other animals, which someone may argue is not appropriate. But as a veterinary neurologist I’m used to doing this and think it’s useful. For example, the coma scale Mad Kelly mentioned won’t work in animals (or infants for that matter). But there are similar scales that have been devised for animals and for infants that don’t rely on verbal responses.

Sure. They start with the presumption that humans are unique in this manner, and go from there. But when you look at the structure and function of the brain that subserve consciousness (OK, they probably skip this step) you see that humans aren’t unique at all. So to define consciousness in simple biologic terms won’t work. They need vague, metaphysical terms like spirit, soul, or whatever -- in other words something beyond the nervous system that can be unique to humans.

sweep

No, he's really quiet, like a still pool, and this instills such a sense of self awareness. Empathy is another kind of consciousness. My ability to know that others feel as I do helps me to know what love is.

I think that we, as a species, rely on emotional persuasion. That is, if we know what others want, it is much easier to persuade them. If I trust someone, I am much more likely to believe what they say. there again, trust isn't really an issue here: we're only having a discussion. I think you're right that we need to know what others think of us, in order to manipulate them. Perhaps manipulation also relies upon specious rhetoric:

"Rhetorical analysis of any sort begins with some orientation to the kairos. Whether or not a rhetorical critic employs the term kairos, he or she will examine the exigencies and constraints of place, time, culture, and audience that affect choices made by speakers and authors to influence that moment:

Germany of post-World War I was demoralized and disorganized. Adolph Hitler's rhetoric was successful not only because of his personal charisma and his mastery of delivery, but because he spoke at the right time: the German people wanted a way out of its economic morass and its cultural shame, and Hitler provided them both with his strong, nationalistic oratory. Had Germany been doing better economically, Hitler's words would have bounced harmlessly off the air."


that's true, excreationist. The brain adapts and becomes dependent on exogenous molecules, thereby impairing the function of the brain. It's quite a trade-off when you consider the costs and benefits of such behaviour. Foolish, I know.

PS: I don't do (illegal) drugs now, but given the chance, I wouldn't dare do DMT. I've been scared enough. I'll stick to living thank U very much.

dk

Originally posted by dk
...Some people have defective wiring that routes color or overlaps the taste cortex with the visual cortex. None of this address the core issue of consciousness.
excreationist
It's called synaesthesia. The possibility of synaesthesia means that our different "senses" - like colours, taste, recognizing letters, etc, are experienced in a similar way by us (i.e. they're just kinds of physical data that can get mixed up)... rather than things like colour and taste, etc, being fundamentally unique things.
dk: There are a number of architectural possibilities, for example point to point, multipoint, packet switched, multiplexed or broadcast. The point was that color and taste sense-datum are interpreted by higher brain functions consciously controlled, and are also sent to an autonomic nervous system that the conscious brain can’t access. None of this addresses the issue of consciousness that must exist at a higher level or lower level, perhaps even at a quantum level for all we know.

dk

Posted by Mad Kally
Fight or flight is a part of your autonomic nervous system. Eventually the parasympathetic nervous system takes over and slowly brings you back to a more normal state. Nothing mysterious about it. It's called physiology.
For Paul2:
Anatomy = structure
physiology = function
dk: I’m really surprised by such shameless appeals to science because they are so obviously conflicted. Armies do get routed, but a well trained army beats an orderly retreat to minimize casualties and lost territory. Obviously the instinct, impulse or compulsion to flight doesn’t necessarily cause a person to flee. People overcome destructive instincts, impulses, compulsions and emotions with reason, order (habit), self-discipline, courage and purpose. I hope we have known someone that has the ability to rise above themselves. Obviously the inability of a person to overcome themselves forges chains that shackle conscious thought.

Mad Kally

Fight or flight is what I said. Yes, I know adrenalin plays a big role in in the whole thing. Well trained military are convinced that they are soldiers first and then humans. Not really a surprise that people could overcome the response. A shameless appeal to science? I was thinking of a pit bull chasing a person, not well trained armies during a war. Paul2 was having trouble understanding any of it...

Mad Kally

Obviously, or we would never have had a war in history. All the soldiers would have been running for their lives.