Bree

Maybe I missed the point (I didn't read the entire thread, just sort of skimmed it):

IntenSity, why are you so afraid to use a different type of birth control? You say that CI is more pleasurable - more pleasureable than what? How does, for example, the pill make sex less pleasureable?

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>

tronvillain

What a bizarre discussion. As a rule, I never have sex without two forms of birth control - generally the pill and a condom. One of the few times my first girlfriend and I had sex without a condom she didn't have her period, which resulted in a scary couple of days for the both of us. Thankfully, it turned out to be nothing when we went to the doctor (she switched to a different type of pill that month) and she got to see how well I handled the situation.

Of course, I've never once had one slip off or break - just roll it on right way out, leave a resevoir, and don't use anything other than a water based lubricant. While there is a slight decrease in sensation, I think it's more mental than physical, since after using them for quite a while I don't notice a huge difference. The interuption in foreplay is relatively minimal if you're at all compotent at putting one on, and besides, it's not as if my mouth isn't still free.

As for the withdrawal method, they don't call it "Catholic Roulette" for nothing. Who doesn't know that there can be sperm in pre-cum? If there wasn't, everyone would be using the withdrawal method unless they were really attached to coming internally.

Vorkosigan

Also, I've read that sperm remain viable for up to five days in the vagina. Even if you are in a time of low fertility....

HelenM

This is what I was saying in my post, that I thought would be the case, although I was only guessing, not being a man...

In general - a lot of things just take practice or some getting used to; our reasons against them are more in our mind than based in objective reality, or are only because we haven't got adept at them yet.

It's good to be aware of that, imo...

love
Helen

brighid

Tron,

Thank you for posting on this from a man's perspective and from one who is responsible. I appreciate it!

Brighid

Ted Hoffman

Brighid,
I appreciate your point: maybe I am just lucky. I talked to her today. Told her we should start using CDs, she objected, saying withdrawal has worked so far and we should stick to it. She mentioned something about condoms being for a couple who contemplate possibility of infidelity. I was just making a suggestion anyway, so I let it rest coz I don't feel so strongly about the matter anyway.

Her parents have refused to meet me (unbridled tribalism). I think she wants to get pg so that she can leave home. Huge ploy. I see young women use it all the time when the parents are intransigent.

Baloo,
I get your point: we've been lucky. We can't rely on luck. Awright, awright. I get it.

Bree,
More pleasurable than sex with a condom. As Helen and Tronvillain have made it clear, that will just be for a while after we change to condoms.

Tronvillain,
Who doesn't know that there can be sperm in pre-cum?
Pre-cum can have sperm occasionally.

This discussion has become gross. Can we talk about something else?

HelenM

We can - but just to comment that, it's not a good basis for a long-term relationship if she wants to get pregnant and she's not being honest with you about it

That's how this whole thread started...by asking, when a woman essentially deceives a man or changes her mind, so the result is her bearing a child she had indicated she didn't want any more than him - but now she does want the child and is keeping him/her - in that situation is does the man ethically have responsibilities towards that child he thought she'd make it impossible for them to have?

love
Helen

brighid

Intensity,

I am glad you talked to her about condom use. If you suspect she wants to get pregnant for a reason other then wanting a baby and being prepared to have a child with YOU, then it should not be up to HER if you use a condom or not. Just as it would not be up to you if she chose to take birth control or not! Having a child to use as a pawn to get back into a family that has disowned her because of her relationship with you is a BAD idea, REALLY, REALLY bad!! Children should not be conceived under those pretenses and a baby does not fix things, although a child can soften the hearts of people, that situation can also back fire. Then the child is caught in the middle and you are left being permanently and genetically linked to a family that does not like you. Do you want that for yourself and any child you would father?

If my experience can help you at all, please let it help you. This is about your life too and you can’t give your power and responsibility up to anyone else. Condom usage is not about infidelity, nor should it be seen that way. Condom usage is about responsibility and honoring your own self-respect and the respect you have for your partner. She may very well want to get pregnant by some “accident” , but does she want YOUR baby or just A baby? Do you want to be responsible for this woman and a child for the rest of your life?

I don’t know your girlfriends motives and I don’t know the level of love, trust and commitment you have to one another. But this situation sounds a bit suspicious IMHO. A child deserves so much more and there are too many children who are permanently scared by being in a bad situation and it is NEEDLESS. If this woman thinks condom usage is for the unfaithful then she simply has an ill-founded perception of the reason for their usage, OR it is an excuse NOT to use them so she can increase her chances of getting pregnant. If you are not ready to father a child, and if this woman cares about you the two of you should be able to come to an amicable solution to prevent any conception from happening. I am not sure I would trust that she would consistently take her pills at this point. If she refuses to take birth control or allow you to wear a condom then perhaps you may want to rethink this relationship and your future. A woman who respects your desires will respect your desire to be safe and protect the BOTH of you from a pregnancy. If she can’t trust you because you want to wear a condom then there are likely some deeper and more troublesome issues going on.

I hope I have not over stepped my bounds (TOO MUCH that is ) in this discussion, but I am truly concerned about this situation. Children should be honored as our most valuable assets. They are the future of our civilization and our species. We shouldn’t take that responsibility lightly and I think you don’t.

Good luck,
Brighid

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by HelenSL:
<strong>
it's not a good basis for a long-term relationship if she wants to get pregnant and she's not being honest with you about it </strong>

Doesn't sound like the best situation for the child, either.

HelenM

I agree. I thought IntenSity said it was because she wanted to get away from them. Perhaps that means that if she got pregnant she'd be able to marry him and leave home.

But both are not good reasons!!!

However, I don't think anyone here would say that it's impossible to have a great relationship with someone whose parents hate you. It does add quite a bit of complexity into the relationship though, and you would definitely want to ascertain that they weren't dating you just to 'get back' at their parents. Or to get away from them. You'd want to make sure you weren't being used.

And, IntenSity, I have no reason to think you're being 'used'! I'm just saying, it could be a factor with a young woman who has a difficult relationship with her parents.

Another thing is - she might have the idealistic notion that her boyfriend will be all to her that her parents are not - yikes!!! That's a very unfair expectation to have of a boyfriend!

love
Helen