Freethought & Rationalism Archive

xstvn · 03-05-2003, 04:40 PM

This editorial was in the Seattle P-I today:
Our rights are free gifts from God

Quote:

By MONTE BENHAM
GUEST COLUMNIST

House Bill 1194, now before the Washington Legislature, would require schools to explain why we are "One Nation, Under God." Most citizens are totally unaware of the powerful statements made in the federal Declaration of Independence and state constitutions.

Schools teach the mechanics but not the foundation of government. They teach human rights but they do not teach that "our rights are free gifts from God and the purpose of government is to protect individual rights" as stated in the Declaration of Independence and state constitutions.

The Washington constitution states: "We the people of the state of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our Liberties, do ordain this constitution.....

Mr. Benham also wrote this last month:
Who opposes (HB1194) Teaching the Constitution?

Last paragraph:

Quote:

Washington State can lead the nation by passing HB 1194. The legislature's decision to pass this bill will do more for education and our society than any other bill on the legislative agenda.

The text of the bill is also on that website.
Some excerpts:

Quote:

...This is not a religion or a separation of church and state issue. The issue is teaching the substance and meanings of the liberties provided by the United States and Washington state constitutions as outlined by the Declaration of Independence.

Yeah, right

Quote:

(3) Teaching the heritage and meaning of this statement from the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness...

Quote:

(4) Teacher instruction on The Northwest Ordinance, which sets the requirements for states to join the union, shall be required. Emphasis shall be placed on teaching the educational intent of the founding fathers as presented in Article 3 of the Northwest Ordinance, which states: "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged ...";

Quote:

(5) Teaching the heritage and meaning of the religious freedom statement of Article I, section 11 of the Washington state Constitution. ... The purpose of this instruction is to illustrate the struggle for obtaining "absolute freedom of conscience in all matters of religious sentiment ..." as stated in Article I, section 11 of the Washington state Constitution;

Quote:

(6) Requiring that students be encouraged to memorize the preamble of the United States Constitution along with the preamble and Article I, section 1 of the Washington state Constitution;

Lets review that WA preamble:

Quote:

"We the people of the state of Washington grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this constitution."

And lastly this one:

Quote:

(10) Illustrating, with teacher instruction, the relationship of the "Pledge of Allegiance to the United States" to the Declaration of Independence and the Washington state Constitution (the preamble, Article I, section 1, and Article I, section 11). This instruction shall be taught at the time the "Pledge of Allegiance" is taught.

Eh? the pledge?

WA residents will remember Monte Benham and his work with Tim Eyman. They will also remember Eyman's bizarre tearful apology when he was caught skimming all that money from his initiative's donors. Kinda gives a different meaning to Benham's plea at the end of his article:

Quote:

I provide my services as a volunteer but my expenses are exceeding donations. Please send a generation (sic) donation to...

Am I just being paranoid and cynical or is this a sneaky attempt to slip god into schools (public AND private) under the guise of just teaching the Constitution?

The article says HB 1194 has 88% voter approval

I wonder how the question was worded...

Ab_Normal · 03-05-2003, 04:49 PM

AAAHHH!!

sorry, that just kinda popped out.

Here's another fun excerpt:

Quote:

Testing on the meanings of the constitutions and the meanings of such terms as tyrant, despotism, providence, unalienable, created equal and law of nature as defined in the 1828 edition of Webster's Dictionary.

Wow, the 1828 edition. That's mighty up to date.

Is it too late to include Benham in the petition to declare Eyman a horse's ass?

tgamble · 03-05-2003, 04:57 PM

It's kinda ironic that those who wrote that all men are created equal were slave owners.

crazyfingers · 03-05-2003, 05:48 PM

I'm still waiting for someone to show me where the bible talks about representative government and freedom of religion.

PandaJoe · 03-05-2003, 07:28 PM

Oh, it's not about religion, it's just that the entire thing has to do with religion.

Now I wonder if they'll say that God created the universe, and then quietly stepped out of the picture. Isn't that the kind of God reffered to in the Declaration of Independance?

Just Another Infidel · 03-05-2003, 08:38 PM

Does the bible say anything about mankind's "inalienable rights?"

IMHO, rights are a construct of mankind. Men?women declare them, men/women restrict them.

JAI

Thanks for the heads up.

xstvn · 03-05-2003, 10:11 PM

I will add that this bill is sponsored by:

Rep Delvin, Condotta, Nixon, Anderson, Bush, Sump, McMahan, Roach, Crouse, Holmquist, Schindler, Boldt, Buck, Hinkle, Campbell, Pearson, Upthegrove and Mielke

The two names in bold are the two representatives that walked out on the Muslim prayer talked about in this thread:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=47094

03-05-2003, 10:28 PM

Why in the world do these people keep trying to cram their filthy religion down our throats? Don't they realize that church/state separation is the best policy for everyone, believers and non-believers alike? :banghead:

JonathanChance · 03-06-2003, 01:53 PM

I know someone that's a clerk in the Wisconsin State Assembly. He says that crap like this gets proposed all the bloody time, so the politicians can milk the fundies for more cash for thier campiagn coffers, but this stuff never gets anywhere at all.

RufusAtticus · 03-06-2003, 02:02 PM

This kind of shit always happens in those ignorant bigoted states of the north west.

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03-05-2003, 04:57 PM	#3
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	It's kinda ironic that those who wrote that all men are created equal were slave owners.

03-05-2003, 05:48 PM	#4
crazyfingers Contributor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 13,699	I'm still waiting for someone to show me where the bible talks about representative government and freedom of religion.

03-05-2003, 07:28 PM	#5
PandaJoe Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 188	Oh, it's not about religion, it's just that the entire thing has to do with religion. Now I wonder if they'll say that God created the universe, and then quietly stepped out of the picture. Isn't that the kind of God reffered to in the Declaration of Independance?

03-05-2003, 08:38 PM	#6
Just Another Infidel Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 370	Does the bible say anything about mankind's "inalienable rights?" IMHO, rights are a construct of mankind. Men?women declare them, men/women restrict them. JAI Thanks for the heads up.

03-05-2003, 10:11 PM	#7
xstvn Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WA state Posts: 261	I will add that this bill is sponsored by: Rep Delvin, Condotta, Nixon, Anderson, Bush, Sump, McMahan, Roach, Crouse, Holmquist, Schindler, Boldt, Buck, Hinkle, Campbell, Pearson, Upthegrove and Mielke The two names in bold are the two representatives that walked out on the Muslim prayer talked about in this thread: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=47094

03-05-2003, 10:28 PM	#8
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	Why in the world do these people keep trying to cram their filthy religion down our throats? Don't they realize that church/state separation is the best policy for everyone, believers and non-believers alike? :banghead:

03-06-2003, 01:53 PM	#9
JonathanChance Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Stevens Point, WI Posts: 538	I know someone that's a clerk in the Wisconsin State Assembly. He says that crap like this gets proposed all the bloody time, so the politicians can milk the fundies for more cash for thier campiagn coffers, but this stuff never gets anywhere at all.

03-06-2003, 02:02 PM	#10
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	This kind of shit always happens in those ignorant bigoted states of the north west.

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