Phil TK

So here they are, two opposing groups in an eternal bout of muck flinging and circular arguements, theory dissection and cod pontification that gains little ground across the field of real human knowledge and reasoning. The mindset of agnostic thinking needs firming up in the eyes and ears of this debate and deserves realisation. Consider the reality that our thought/perception abilities at this moment in time are simply not powerful enough to perceive any trueisms beyond our earthbound experiences. Give me an example that disproves this!
What do you think SecularWeb postings will be saying in 2 billion years time? -probably the same sort of stuff we see today I think. Our knowledge and perception will still be wanting, so how concrete are your feelings now? We are the tiny children of the universe, we are so insignificant that any of the theists 'Gods'(if any) probably doesn't know we are here and atheists can never prove the difference between 'No God' and a God that exists but doesn't care.
I'm an agnosic and at least I admit I don't know the answers. As I read the postings on this site I know for sure that both of the main protagonist groups here are really the same -Agnostic. You don't know for sure.

daemon

Being a contentious cuss isn't necessarily the best way to open a conversation, Phil.

I'll admit, I'm inclined to agree with you to a degree, but you seem to have confused the issue a bit. There is nothing preventing a theist or an atheist from being agnostic at the same time. An agnostic atheist is usually referred to as a "weak" athiest, holding the weak atheist belief of "I don't believe there is a god" as opposed to the strong atheist belief of "I believe there is no god."

I consider myself both an agnostic and an atheist; my thinking is inclined towards agnosticism, but I am pragmatically an atheist--I do not acknowledge any gods.

MortalWombat

Are you agnostic about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Nature Spirits, demons, dragons, etc.? Are you agnostic about the proposition that angels control the movement of the planets?

Synaesthesia

Um, excuse me, I'm a strong atheist. Some dude dressed in burning bushes could jump down my chimney, conjure a cross with christmas lights a-dangling and I STILL wouldn't believe that he's God.

Devilnaut

But but but but but but... YOU CAN'T KNOW FOR SURE!

lcb

good post Phil, i guess its best to keep an open mind....as they keep digging in the mid east ya never know what will be dug up and as war clouds gather over iraq/israel etc ya never know what Bible prophecy will suddenly "fulfill itself" next!

Philosoft

Heh. Phil's and your idea of "an open mind" is apparently "we don't know everything, therefore we know nothing."

<strong> Right. When zionism was in full force, the decision to stick Israel in the middle of Palestine was just a happy accident, with no regard paid to the stories in the Bible. Right.

Thomas Metcalf

Yes, I do. I know for sure that a self-contradictory being cannot exist. I know for sure that if I formulate a true conditional with "God exists" in the antecedent and a false consequent, God does not exist.

Failure to convince apologists of their position's weaknesses should not be taken as a failure of atheologians to justify their position. (Nor should the opposite, I suppose.)

lcb

i didnt say a happy accident. but if you go over to the archaeology forum you can follow the thread i started on this called "Paschal's wager 'plus'"-and yes i always spell pascal wrong, i am a history person not a philosphy scholar.

Philosoft

Oh, I've followed it. In case you haven't noticed, you're not doing so well over there.

[ August 09, 2002: Message edited by: Philosoft ]</p>