Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 12-06-2002, 08:19 AM

Bertrand Russell had written that he had once followed the fashion of late-19th-cy. British academic philosophy and followed Hegel. He later rejected Hegelianism after reading Hegel himself and finding Hegel's writings on mathematics to be totally nonsensical.

I wonder what Hegel had written on mathematics; I can guess what he may have written. Hegel believed that there was no self-consistent truth but the complete truth, the Absolute Idea. Any partial truth was inconsistent; it could be turned into its opposite, and it and its opposite combined to form a superior truth -- the dialectic method of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. And the ultimate result of such transformations would be the Absolute Idea.

Hegel may have tried to apply his dialectic method to mathematics, and if so, this dialectic would have been very forced, because mathematics represents a clear counterexample to his hypothesis that the only self-consistent truth is the complete truth.

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

Kantian · 12-06-2002, 12:15 PM

Here's a suggestion, Ipetritch. Try reading the books of Hegel instead of looking for short-cuts that confirms your initial biases. Bertrand Russell is a poor source to go for an adequate understanding of Hegelian philosophy, seeing that he was part of the tradition in Britain of the time (F. H. Bradley idealism) Russell and Moore rebelled against. I have my doubts that Russell even had the intellectual courage to read Hegel at all, given that in the Phenomenology of Spirit there's a chapter Hegel aptly anticipates Russell's sense-datum metaphysics.

~transcendentalist~

The Dionysian · 12-08-2002, 07:55 PM

Hegel makes for a good laugh, that's about it.

phaedrus · 12-11-2002, 01:05 AM

nice one ....kant

Any thoughts on marx's �Critique of Hegel's Dialectic�?
<a href="http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/hegel.htm" target="_blank">Marx on Hegel</a>

Quote:

Hegel says somewhere that all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce. Karl Marx - The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte

lpetrich · 12-11-2002, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Dionysian:
<strong>Hegel makes for a good laugh, that's about it.</strong>

How so?

And how does "Kantian" conclude that Hegel had successfully answered Russell in Phenomenology?

Kantian · 12-11-2002, 11:06 PM

From the Horse's Mouth: <a href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/mickelsen/texts/Hegel%20Phen/hegel%20phen%20ch%201.htm" target="_blank">Phenomenology of Spirit.</a>

It's safe to call me by my handle without the quotation marks

~transcendentalist~

Kantian · 12-11-2002, 11:09 PM

Quote:

phaedrus: nice one ....kant

That sounds like Seneca's hypocritical pose of Socrates in his lifetime. (the suicide, etc)

~transcendentalist~

phaedrus · 12-11-2002, 11:46 PM

Ahh the Senecan Tragedies....which one be your favourite?

Quote:

I am that gadfly which God (sic!)has attached to the state, and all day long and in all places am always fastening upon you, arousing and persuading and reproaching you. Socrates -Apology (Plato)

Quote:

There is no great genius without some touch of madness. Lucius Annaeus Seneca -Epistulae Morales

Frivolous · 12-12-2002, 10:01 AM

Sorry i dont have anything constructive to add on this specific subject, i just clicked on the thread cos it had Bertrand Russell in the subject.

Speaking of which, i just borrowed Why I Am Not A Christian, suggested to me via some hate mail (see im not so ignorant jez..)

Its making sense. Is this guy still alive? I havent finished it yet...

lpetrich · 12-12-2002, 02:36 PM

Bertrand Russell lived 1872-1970; he's been dead for the last 32 years, as far as I know.

Also, I've tried to read that chapter of "Phenomenology of Spirit", and I've gathered that Hegel's position is that since we are primarily aware of our consciousness, then the external world must be some sort of hallucination.

12-06-2002, 08:19 AM	#1
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Bertrand Russell, Hegel, and Mathematics Bertrand Russell had written that he had once followed the fashion of late-19th-cy. British academic philosophy and followed Hegel. He later rejected Hegelianism after reading Hegel himself and finding Hegel's writings on mathematics to be totally nonsensical. I wonder what Hegel had written on mathematics; I can guess what he may have written. Hegel believed that there was no self-consistent truth but the complete truth, the Absolute Idea. Any partial truth was inconsistent; it could be turned into its opposite, and it and its opposite combined to form a superior truth -- the dialectic method of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. And the ultimate result of such transformations would be the Absolute Idea. Hegel may have tried to apply his dialectic method to mathematics, and if so, this dialectic would have been very forced, because mathematics represents a clear counterexample to his hypothesis that the only self-consistent truth is the complete truth. [ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

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12-06-2002, 12:15 PM	#2
Kantian Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Konigsberg Posts: 238	Here's a suggestion, Ipetritch. Try reading the books of Hegel instead of looking for short-cuts that confirms your initial biases. Bertrand Russell is a poor source to go for an adequate understanding of Hegelian philosophy, seeing that he was part of the tradition in Britain of the time (F. H. Bradley idealism) Russell and Moore rebelled against. I have my doubts that Russell even had the intellectual courage to read Hegel at all, given that in the Phenomenology of Spirit there's a chapter Hegel aptly anticipates Russell's sense-datum metaphysics. ~transcendentalist~

12-08-2002, 07:55 PM	#3
The Dionysian Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: who knows Posts: 154	Hegel makes for a good laugh, that's about it.

12-11-2002, 11:06 PM	#6
Kantian Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Konigsberg Posts: 238	From the Horse's Mouth: <a href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/mickelsen/texts/Hegel%20Phen/hegel%20phen%20ch%201.htm" target="_blank">Phenomenology of Spirit.</a> It's safe to call me by my handle without the quotation marks ~transcendentalist~

12-12-2002, 10:01 AM	#9
Frivolous Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 101	Sorry i dont have anything constructive to add on this specific subject, i just clicked on the thread cos it had Bertrand Russell in the subject. Speaking of which, i just borrowed Why I Am Not A Christian, suggested to me via some hate mail (see im not so ignorant jez..) Its making sense. Is this guy still alive? I havent finished it yet...

12-12-2002, 02:36 PM	#10
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Bertrand Russell lived 1872-1970; he's been dead for the last 32 years, as far as I know. Also, I've tried to read that chapter of "Phenomenology of Spirit", and I've gathered that Hegel's position is that since we are primarily aware of our consciousness, then the external world must be some sort of hallucination.

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