Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Buffman · 10-26-2002, 12:37 PM

GeoTheo

I was a bonifide atheist for about 24 hours.

You infidels actually brought me back to reality.

I have been a bona fide human being for 67 years.

Your post only confirms what I have learned in that time. The majority of human beings revel in, and receive succor from, their irrationality.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]

99Percent · 10-26-2002, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phlebas:
I actually expirimented with being a moose.
You mammals actually brought me back to reality.
I was a bonifide moose for about 24 hours. Then I said to my self. Do I think reptiles are a bunch of assholes now? The answer was a resounding No. So then I asked myself. Which is more likely- The mammals are largely anti-reptile because they are moose or are they moose as a result of being anti-reptile? I decided it was the later. I also noticed thay my taste for bugs remained the same and that it impelled me to make the same types of cuisine choices I made as a reptile. My taste for bugs has always been aligned with the teachings of Barney and actually predates my knowledge of the teachings of Barney, even though I also can identify parts or forces within me that cause me to somtimes want to go against it. I then realized that I would now be faced with a choice of whether to follow my taste for bugs or not.
If I follow my taste for bugs I will be living more or less acording to Barneyical cuisine. But it will not be based on a belief that this taste for bugs comes from PBS. Does my cuisine code seem to reflect that of the mammals for the most part?
I answered no.
I then asked myself which is more likely- mammals have no taste for bugs or they do and go against it. I would say they go against it. Which is more likely They go against their tastes for bugs because they are moose or they are moose because they go against their tastes for bugs.
I answerd that the later is most likely.
My tastes for bugs is somthing, as I look over my life, has caused me to reflect on the existence of PBS.
I have no reason to believe this principle does not operate this way in others.
So in order to be a moose I would have to choose to go against my taste for bugs.
Do not think I am unaware you moose probably have all sorts of rationalizations that the taste for bugs is subjective and entirely a product of evolutionary conditioning. How could you not?
This has never been my experience. From an early age I have had the same cuisine code and it has always been different and more "traditional" or "hiding under a rock" or whatever word you want to use than that of my parents or childhood teachers and even that of the liberal PBS employees I was raised with.

Absolutely fucking brilliant! <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

GeoTheo · 10-26-2002, 01:12 PM

I probably should not have started this thread.
Or perhaps I should have thought it out more and phrased it better.
I did not set out to "try atheism for 24 hours"
I guess that is how I made it sound. It wasn't really an expiriment. I only can say this in retrospect since I came back to being a theist.
I came to the conclusion that I really have no evidence that God exists and that I can come up with alternative explanations for all of things I use God to explain.
So I would say I actually was an atheist. I experienced having a change in perspective.
In a way I felt that it was very affirming, because I alone would then be responsible for everything I do good or bad. I wouldn't have to give credit to God for anything good that happened to me or anything I accomplished. I also could not blame God for anything bad that would happen to me. And If I wanted anything out of life I would have to go out and get it myself and not rely on prayer. But whatever I went out and got or did would be mine alone. Of course I would have people to thank here and there, but ultimately I alone would be responsible for all of my accomplishments.
I also felt a little anxious that I was more alone in the Universe and that there did not seem to be any ultimate meaning.
I really still don't understand all of the bitterness toward Christianity. I appreciate that all atheists are not anti-Christian. If I were to be an atheist I would see all of the positive things I see within Christianity as being not from God but as evidence for the potential for good within human beings.
For the first time I also fully understood other peoples attitudes about sex. If there is no God, our bodies belong only to us. Therefore consenting adults can do whatever they want assuming no one is harmed. I never understood that before. From a very early age I believed pre-marital sex, homosexuality and pornography was wrong. Basically I believed any variation of sex between a man and wife was wrong. I believed this despite the fact that I was not raised to believe this way. I had a very liberal upbringing.

GeoTheo · 10-26-2002, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Perchance:
Geo,

I'm assuming (giving you the benefit of the doubt, really) that you are honest about having been an atheist for twenty-four hours, or at least trying not to believe in God.

Doesn't the continued existence of your moral code in that timeframe suggest to you that you don't need God to have a moral code?

If you think that morals and God are absolutely and utterly dependent on each other, then:

1) you should have felt immoral as an atheist

or

2) you still believed in God even during those twenty-four hours.

-Perchance.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
I have to give this a lot more thought, in order to avoid being awkward in my wording. But I really do think morality is dependant on a belief in God because I think ones conscience is from God. I don't think your conscience goes away from not believing in God, but the types of things your conscience leads you to do seem to not make sense without a belief in God. So I think in order to be an atheist I would have to not listen to my conscience at least in some instances or If I did continue to listen to it I would be an atheist with the morals of a conservative Christian. If such a creature exists I have never met one.

GeoTheo · 10-26-2002, 01:40 PM

Helen;
Here is a link
<a href="http://www.thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000128#000002" target="_blank">http://www.thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000128#000002</a>
Perhaps this is a sign from God that I should become an atheist.

sakrilege · 10-26-2002, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
So I think in order to be an atheist I would have to not listen to my conscience at least in some instances or If I did continue to listen to it I would be an atheist with the morals of a conservative Christian.

I don't see a problem with this. I'm an extheist and many of my morals are based on what I was taught as a child. Remember many xtian morals are borrowed from other cultures.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: sakrilege ]

99Percent · 10-26-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
Perhaps this is a sign from God that I should become an atheist.

LOL

HelenM · 10-26-2002, 04:29 PM

GeoTheo I was going to ask whether that's what you meant - that in effect you had a crisis of faith and wondered whether God was really there after all.

And now you've clarified that you did mean that...
I'm sorry I didn't wait to see whether you meant you had a one day loss of faith or not, before assuming you meant something more pre-meditated...

.

I read the link to Christian Message Boards - I even posted on it! Hang in there. I hope you find a church of more supportive people - and one that is conservative in theology, since that is what you want

in Christ
Helen

Demigawd · 10-26-2002, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
I probably should not have started this thread.
Or perhaps I should have thought it out more and phrased it better.
I did not set out to "try atheism for 24 hours"
I guess that is how I made it sound. It wasn't really an expiriment. I only can say this in retrospect since I came back to being a theist.
I came to the conclusion that I really have no evidence that God exists and that I can come up with alternative explanations for all of things I use God to explain.
So I would say I actually was an atheist. I experienced having a change in perspective.
In a way I felt that it was very affirming, because I alone would then be responsible for everything I do good or bad. I wouldn't have to give credit to God for anything good that happened to me or anything I accomplished. I also could not blame God for anything bad that would happen to me. And If I wanted anything out of life I would have to go out and get it myself and not rely on prayer. But whatever I went out and got or did would be mine alone. Of course I would have people to thank here and there, but ultimately I alone would be responsible for all of my accomplishments.
I also felt a little anxious that I was more alone in the Universe and that there did not seem to be any ultimate meaning.
I really still don't understand all of the bitterness toward Christianity. I appreciate that all atheists are not anti-Christian. If I were to be an atheist I would see all of the positive things I see within Christianity as being not from God but as evidence for the potential for good within human beings.
For the first time I also fully understood other peoples attitudes about sex. If there is no God, our bodies belong only to us. Therefore consenting adults can do whatever they want assuming no one is harmed. I never understood that before. From a very early age I believed pre-marital sex, homosexuality and pornography was wrong. Basically I believed any variation of sex between a man and wife was wrong. I believed this despite the fact that I was not raised to believe this way. I had a very ->*CONSERVATIVE AND FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN*<- upbringing.

Except for my change to your last sentence and a desire to put atheistic outlooks in present tense, your statement is a pretty good summary of my experience after giving up belief in any god(s). Only I haven't gone back crying to my childhood indoctrination.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Demigawd ]

Viti · 10-26-2002, 04:50 PM

Quote:

If I were to be an atheist I would see all of the positive things I see within Christianity as being not from God but as evidence for the potential for good within human beings.
For the first time I also fully understood other peoples attitudes about sex. If there is no God, our bodies belong only to us. Therefore consenting adults can do whatever they want assuming no one is harmed. I never understood that before. From a very early age I believed pre-marital sex, homosexuality and pornography was wrong. Basically I believed any variation of sex between a man and wife was wrong.

So you understood, but disagreed? That's allowed even within the Evil Atheist Conspiracy. These are the first thoughts I have read from you that makes me think we can communicate on some level.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: LadyShea ]

10-26-2002, 12:37 PM	#31
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	GeoTheo I was a bonifide atheist for about 24 hours. You infidels actually brought me back to reality. I have been a bona fide human being for 67 years. Your post only confirms what I have learned in that time. The majority of human beings revel in, and receive succor from, their irrationality. [ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]</p>

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10-26-2002, 01:12 PM	#33
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	I probably should not have started this thread. Or perhaps I should have thought it out more and phrased it better. I did not set out to "try atheism for 24 hours" I guess that is how I made it sound. It wasn't really an expiriment. I only can say this in retrospect since I came back to being a theist. I came to the conclusion that I really have no evidence that God exists and that I can come up with alternative explanations for all of things I use God to explain. So I would say I actually was an atheist. I experienced having a change in perspective. In a way I felt that it was very affirming, because I alone would then be responsible for everything I do good or bad. I wouldn't have to give credit to God for anything good that happened to me or anything I accomplished. I also could not blame God for anything bad that would happen to me. And If I wanted anything out of life I would have to go out and get it myself and not rely on prayer. But whatever I went out and got or did would be mine alone. Of course I would have people to thank here and there, but ultimately I alone would be responsible for all of my accomplishments. I also felt a little anxious that I was more alone in the Universe and that there did not seem to be any ultimate meaning. I really still don't understand all of the bitterness toward Christianity. I appreciate that all atheists are not anti-Christian. If I were to be an atheist I would see all of the positive things I see within Christianity as being not from God but as evidence for the potential for good within human beings. For the first time I also fully understood other peoples attitudes about sex. If there is no God, our bodies belong only to us. Therefore consenting adults can do whatever they want assuming no one is harmed. I never understood that before. From a very early age I believed pre-marital sex, homosexuality and pornography was wrong. Basically I believed any variation of sex between a man and wife was wrong. I believed this despite the fact that I was not raised to believe this way. I had a very liberal upbringing.

10-26-2002, 01:40 PM	#35
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Helen; Here is a link <a href="http://www.thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000128#000002" target="_blank">http://www.thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000128#000002</a> Perhaps this is a sign from God that I should become an atheist.

10-26-2002, 04:29 PM	#38
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	GeoTheo I was going to ask whether that's what you meant - that in effect you had a crisis of faith and wondered whether God was really there after all. And now you've clarified that you did mean that... I'm sorry I didn't wait to see whether you meant you had a one day loss of faith or not, before assuming you meant something more pre-meditated... . I read the link to Christian Message Boards - I even posted on it! Hang in there. I hope you find a church of more supportive people - and one that is conservative in theology, since that is what you want in Christ Helen

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